THE STORY OF PAUL McCARTNEYAND WINGS

INTRODUCTION

[00:00:00] Dave Anthony: Welcome to Garage to Stadiums. Today's episode is the story of Paul McCartney. Before the stadium lights in the night Hood, there was a 15-year-old guitarist who blew away a restless band leader named John Lennon. When the band needed a bassist, the young guitarist named Paul was a team player and agreed to the ship and soon he and John were writing songs that would redefine popular music inside a band. The world would come to know as The Beatles. When that empire collapsed under tension and vision and exhaustion, the question wasn't whether McCartney had been successful. It was whether he would be successful again without the banner, without the brothers, without the myth.

[00:00:42] Dave Anthony: What followed was not a smooth second act. It began as a retreat reinvention. A new band built from scratch, new personalities, new pressures, and eerily familiar fault lines would begin to appear on the horizon, create a friction. Fragile egos addictions. [00:01:00] Yet the songs kept coming, hits, misses and masterpieces all carrying the fingerprints of a man unwilling to fade quietly into history.

[00:01:09] Dave Anthony: What you're about to hear is the story of what happens after you've already conquered the world and have to prove you can do it again. Here to tell the post Beatles story of Paul McCartney is Allan Kozinn the co-author of a two volume pair of books called The McCartney Legacy, a retrospective of Paul McCartney's career from the end of the Beatles onward.

[00:01:33] Dave Anthony: Allan is best known for his 37 year tenure at the New York Times, covering classical music and what was called the Beatles desk. He currently contributes reviews for the Wall Street Journal. The first volume of his works on McCartney covers the year 1969 to 73. Volume two picks up from 74 to 1980. And Rolling Stone described the book as comprehensive, painstaking, dazzling, and a
definitive chronicle The Weekend Mail the UK said of the book, the following quote. If the devil is in the detail, then the McCartney legacy is positively satanic. Allan joins us today from Portland, Maine.

Meet Beatles historian Allan Kozinn

[00:02:16] Allan Kozinn: Welcome to Garage to Stadiums, Allan. Thanks Dave. Great to be here.
[00:02:21] Dave Anthony: Your works on The Beatles and Paul McCartney are extensive and impressive.
[00:02:27] Allan Kozinn: It's funny, I, I grew up studying classical music and most of my actual career was covering classical music for the New York Times, but I also grew up during that period when the Beatles were a current band, I saw them on the Ed Sullivan show, all of. All that stuff that people of my generation always say.

[00:02:46] Allan Kozinn: And I got sort of obsessive about them, even though I was studying classical stuff and playing classical stuff and, and in writing about it, I always kept very close tabs on the Beatles world as a group. And then after they broke up as soloists, I was at the times, there was an instance where the chief pop critic wrote a review of a Beatles video production that.

[00:03:10] Allan Kozinn: Wasn't actually what it claimed to be. So I sent him a note explaining what it was, and after that he said, listen, why don't you basically do the Beatles stuff? So I became the Times Beatle desk, basically. So that was fun.

Classical music parallels with the Beatles

[00:03:25] Dave Anthony: Was there parallels between classical and the Beatles that kinda led you to make a pretty easy leap to the next lily pad

[00:03:33] Allan Kozinn: As they got on to 1966, 1967 they began doing a lot of experimental stuff. That to me, was as fascinating as what classical composers were doing

PAUL'S PERSONAL LIFE IN THE LATE SIXTIES

Paul's romance with Jane Asher

[00:03:48] Dave Anthony: To start to tell this story, it's important to start with Paul's personality and the Beatles empire nearing its end at the end of the 1960s. We all know [00:04:00] the success of the Beatles as pioneers of modern music.

[00:04:02] Dave Anthony: Their popularity was enormous and among the Beatles, Paul was thought to be the cute one, the creative one. . Paul began dating British actress Jane Asher, way back in 1963 as the Beatles were becoming a major act. He even lived with Jane Asher's family from 63 to 66 when they offered him a room in the attic, and he wrote many of his famous tunes there.
Before he ended up marrying Linda McCartney in 1969

[00:04:26] Allan Kozinn: Paul was at that point, the most eligible bachelor among the Beatles, the only bachelor among the Beatles. the rest were married and he was the last hauled out.

[00:04:36] Dave Anthony: Tell us about who Linda McCartney. What was her family background?.
 
[00:04:39] Allan Kozinn: Lee Eastman was her father, and she had a brother John, and sister Laura. Lee and John were lawyers and. Lee was actually a pretty well-known entertainment lawyer, and he did a lot in music publishing.

Linda Eastman's family background

[00:04:57] Dave Anthony: He was originally born Leopold Epstein, [00:05:00] but changed his name to Lee Eastman when the Beatles manager, Ryan Epstein, no relation to Lee, died in August 1967, Paul eventually approached Linda Spa Lee for advice on who should manage the Beatles. Eastman began representing the Beatles. .

[00:05:16] Allan Kozinn: Apart from publishing, the Eastmans were art collectors. They were very cultured people, and Paul was always a sucker for that, and so he fell right into that scene. Pretty easily. The thing is that in the family, Linda was like the black sheep. She was as a a young girl. She used to go to rock and roll shows in Brooklyn. She saw all of the people who were Paul's heroes. Buddy Holly, with
 
[00:05:42] Example: Buddy Holland. And his crickets.
[00:05:48] Example: You dunno what you, I be no boy. When you with, I thought my world can see that you

[00:05:57] Allan Kozinn: and Little Richard and all of these [00:06:00] people in the late fifties and she came to the relationship knowing an awful lot of the music that Paul was into and having seen the original people playing it, which Paul in a lot of cases hadn't.

[00:06:13] Allan Kozinn: Plus she was by then, she was a photographer. She started in 1966, photographing the Rolling Stones, and then got a lot of assignments, got cover assignments for Rolling Stone, took lots of pictures of Hendrix and basically everybody who was big at the time. And when she went to London and finally met Paul, she was there to photograph for a book called "Rock and Other Four Litter Words".

[00:06:41] Allan Kozinn: She was doing the photography and someone else was writing it, and she arranged to get an invitation to a party Brian Epstein was having for the Sergeant Pepper album, which was about to come out. She actually had met Paul a few nights earlier at a club called The Bag of Nails in London, and so she saw him again at that party. So that's Linda.

Paul and Linda tie the knot

[00:07:04] Dave Anthony: And Paul marries Linda on March 12th, 1969. At two weeks later, Lennon marries Yoko Ono, March 30th. Is it just a coincidence that they both married in the same month? Was this another aspect of their rivalry?

[00:07:19] Allan Kozinn: I think it probably was a Kleincidence except that it, you could say it was in the air, but I don't think Paul was gonna get married just because John was getting married. 'cause John had been married before to Cynthia, and that didn't inspire Paul to marry anybody. There may have been, you know, there may be something to it. They both had found the women who they saw as their soulmates.

THE BEATLES' BREAKUP AND THE BATTLE OVER MANAGEMENT

Allen Klein versus the Eastmans

[00:07:41] Dave Anthony: At the beginning of 1969, the Beatles began to consider a new management structure. Both Linda's father and another New York City native of accountant, Allen Klein, were both considered as candidates. John Lennon favored Klein because Lennon [00:08:00] was impressed that Klein knew and understood Lennon's lyrics and called Klein very intelligent and felt he was tougher and more street smart than the upper class Lee Eastman. McCartney wanted Eastman, but was outvoted three to one as George Harrison, and Ringo Starr sided with Lennon and Klein. So maybe the battle was more about Paul trying to bring in a family member an inlaw.

[00:08:25] Allan Kozinn: Yeah, the, it's an aspect of that Allen Klein turned up at the end of his, what were the Let it be sessions or sessions, and John was completely taken with him and said, "Allen Klein's gonna do my stuff, whatever you guys want to do is fine with me". And then George and Ringo went with John on that at the. At the time the Eastmans were representing the Beatles. Legally, they weren't managing them, but they had an official position in the Beatles company. Paul felt that if [00:09:00] we're gonna have Allen Klein, who he had heard quite a lot about Allen Klein's reputation, and said to the others," listen, I, I don't think that he's gonna be good for us". I think basically he'll end up just taking everything we have" because in a certain way that's what he had done with the Rolling Stones. He renegotiated a contract with DECA for them, and then suddenly he owned their masters for everything up to Sticky Fingers.

[00:09:29] Allan Kozinn: Sam Cook and other artists had similar experiences, and Paul had heard about this and he warned the others.

[00:09:36] Allan Kozinn: Now, from Paul's point of view, it wasn't necessarily Klein or the Eastmans. There were other people they talked to. There were other people that Paul recommended, other British businessmen. John went to meet some of them and wasn't impressed. But in a way, the others took it that way because there's a 1970 interview with George where George [00:10:00] says, listen, three of us wanted to do one thing and one of us wanted to do something else, and the problem is that the three of us don't have to go home to it every day.

[00:10:09] Allan Kozinn: So that was a pretty clear indication that they at least felt that Paul was pushing the Eastmans. And you could understand why. If you're in a partnership, you don't want one person's in-laws as your manager. As we discussed in our Beatles Grass Stadiums episode, the precipitous decline of the Beatles was not helped by the fact that the other three Beatles, other than Paul signed a contract with American accountant Allen Klein, giving him management control of their company.

Apple Corp and the end of unanimous decisions

[00:10:40] Dave Anthony: Apple Corp was a game changing moment for Paul because up until now, big decisions always required unanimity rather than a simple vote. Every member used to have a veto, not this time. McCartney's words seem to sum up this period perfectly, "That was the night we broke the Beatles, and it never came back after that one".
[00:11:02] Dave Anthony: In the Beatles episode, we talked about John having a heroin addiction. We talked about a bunch of tumultuous activity towards the 68, 69 period. One of the things that came through was Paul, he's got a controlling nature in the studio, telling people how to play various licks.

Paul's controlling nature in the studio

[00:11:22] Dave Anthony: How much of this war between the three Beatles and Paul do you think was payback for Paul's controlling nature of the studio?

[00:11:29] Allan Kozinn: Yeah, I don't think so. The controlling nature in a way. He probably had that more than the others, but. John and George when they were doing their songs probably were in control too.

[00:11:43] Allan Kozinn: There were different musicians come in many different forms, and some are just completely collaborative and will bring in an idea and then let anybody contribute to it anything they want. And some people like all know what they want and they want the others [00:12:00] to contribute specific things. I think the battle between them really was mostly about Allen Klein.

PAUL MCCARTNEY GOES SOLO

Tension over the McCartney album's release date

[00:12:09] Dave Anthony: John Lennon lets it be known that he wants to leave the Beatles in September, 1969, but he's convinced by a Klein to keep it quiet while Klein is negotiating a new Beatles contract with the record distributor, EMI, who was the distributor for the Beatles' own Apple records, which the group had started back in 1968.

[00:12:30] Dave Anthony: This battle rages on as Paul has tried to prepare to release his first album on Apple Records. Paul wants to release his album in April, but it's contractually tied to Apple. But Apple has several Beatles related albums being released. The Hey Jude compilation, Ringo solo albums and the Let It Be All.

[00:12:51] Dave Anthony: John and George write Paul a letter telling him they're bumping his album release date to not conflict with the release of Let It Be. [00:13:00] Ringo hand delivers the letter to Paul and Paul goes ballistic shouting at Ringo and throws him out of the house. Next Paul McCartney walks away from the wreckage of the Beatles to release his first album and the world responds

[00:13:17] Announcer: Garage to Stadiums telling the stories of how our music legends have moved from obscurity to global fame.

The McCartney album and Maybe I'm Amazed

[00:13:28] Dave Anthony: Paul calls John and tells him I'm leaving on April 9th, 1970, and proceeds to quit the Beatles. Also, in April of that year, Allen Klein starts to play a major role in the album, Let it Be, which was released after the Beatles breakup, and this causes major friction as Klein hires Phil Spector. He was famous for lush productions called "The Wall of Sound", to overlay major orchestration over the songs that Paul and others wrote.

[00:13:57] Dave Anthony: Paul is furious. [00:14:00] Paul's first album simply entitled McCartney and containing the classic. Maybe I'm Amazed is released in April, 1970. He goes to number one in the US and number two in the uk. It several songs are about Linda, including the lovely Linda.

[00:14:43] Dave Anthony: Linda provides backing vocals on the Alden. Is he following Lenin's lead of including his spouse here purposely or subconsciously?

[00:14:51] Allan Kozinn: Paul definitely liked the idea that John had of collaborating with his wife. Obviously the [00:15:00] kind of collaboration is completely different. You know, Yoko was an avantgarde and was pushing John in that direction, and Linda was sort of a rock and roll girl and was, and Paul was still.

[00:15:13] Allan Kozinn: Leading what was going on. She was providing backing vocals and things like that. So it's a different kind of collaboration, but you may be right about there being an influence. I think possibly John working with Yoko was inspiring to Paul in terms of wanting Lin in the band. Two

[00:15:33] Dave Anthony: weeks after McCartney's first album is released, the Beatles released Let It Be.

Let It Be tops the charts

[00:15:37] Paul McCartney: Speaking words of wisdom, let it be,

[00:15:41] Dave Anthony: and it goes to number one in the US knocking out Paul's first album, and it goes to number one in the UK as well. Then more Beatles. Paul interaction is Paul Viles, a lawsuit against John George Ringle and Apple Corp to dissolve the Beatles 1967 partnership agreement [00:16:00] and the bitterness spills over into the press in the first of a two part lenon interview in Rolling Stone.

[00:16:08] Dave Anthony: John is very critical of Paul musically calling his album Rubbish and says insulting things about Paul in the Eastman fail.

FAME, FEUDS AND THE RAM ALBUM

Ram's release amid legal battles

[00:16:17] Dave Anthony: The next album that Paul and now Linda McCartney released in June, 1971 called Ram As too many people, too many. That was your first mistake.

[00:16:48] Dave Anthony: It's top five worldwide in February of 1971. And in keeping with the war raging on the Beatles front lines, Paul Times the single to be released on the same day [00:17:00] as the hearing begins and Paul appeared in high court.

[00:17:03] Dave Anthony: That's an interesting segue to the my next question, which would be, hmm. Too many people, the solo on that Ram album has references to John as part of their musical war.

[00:17:15] Dave Anthony: They broke songs back and forth a little bit. John, particularly other songs were also interpreted on that album as being attacked on John or The Beatles. What's your view of this battle? You talk about all wanting to be liked, yet he does kind of dip his fingers in the mud here to sling it at John, seemingly.

[00:17:31] Dave Anthony: What is your view on that? Yeah, Paul didn't do it quite as much as John did, and when he did, it was a little more subtle. Too many people is basically just saying too many people going underground and. Telling you what you should believe, but you should believe what you wanna believe. John's response to that, how do you sleep?

Too Many People and How Do You Sleep

[00:17:53] Allan Kozinn: is, Really far more vicious. The only thing you done was [00:18:00] yesterday.

[00:18:15] Allan Kozinn: . The only thing you've done was yesterday and since you're gone, you're just another day, which is a reference to his first solo single and it, and Paul's was a little more sub rosa than John's. Some of the things on Ram that John took as attacks weren't even necessarily meant as attacks.

[00:18:34] Allan Kozinn: For instance, in the sort of play out of backseat of my car, he says, we believe that we can't be wrong now. That sort of fits into the song itself, which is basically just about a guy and a girl who want to run away from their parents, drive down to Mexico and make out in their car. But John took it as we believe that we can't be wrong and you [00:19:00] are wrong.

[00:19:00] Allan Kozinn: So that's an interpretive thing that may not have actually been there in Paul's writing.

[00:19:06] Dave Anthony: that Ram album also As Uncle Albert. Albert Admiral Halsey, which went to number one in the us, number two in the uk.

[00:19:13]

Grammy success and harsh reviews

[00:19:29] Dave Anthony: It actually won a Grammy, but with that RAM album there was a lot of negative reviews. Despite these achievements, McCartney was very sensitive of bad reviews of his albums. Did that surprise you in your research, given that he was already a legend in the songwriting department?

[00:19:47] Allan Kozinn: Yeah, it didn't surprise me because all creators are sensitive to reviews.

[00:19:52] Allan Kozinn: I've talked to a great many over the years and one, one thing I found is that the more a composer or [00:20:00] performer says, I don't read reviews, the more obsessed they are with their reviews. Paul likes to, not that everybody doesn't. In a way, Paul really likes that and he has a, a public. Creative life and he wants what he puts out there publicly to be liked.

[00:20:18] Allan Kozinn: And so when it gets a bad review, and certainly in, in a lot of cases, people were scathing in some of the reviews. There was a British critic named Charles Shar Murray, who. Reviewed Venus in Mars and his, his article was titled something like, what Do You Say to a Beatle Who's Done a Rubbish album? Or something like that.

[00:20:40] Allan Kozinn: And that bothered Paul so much that he mentioned it in an interview as late as 2015, and that was in 1975. So it didn't surprise me that bad reviews bothered him.

Linda's songwriting credits

[00:20:53] Dave Anthony: Linda was credited with co-writing six songs on the album, and many of these early songwriting efforts by Paul are [00:21:00] credited to Linda as well. You probably have a view on that and why that happened. It was less about probably her songwriting ability and probably more about money.

[00:21:10] Allan Kozinn: That's very possible. He's never admitted that. And, and it's very possible that Linda did contribute to these songs. But the thing is, in practical financial terms, Paul was signed to Northern Songs publisher, which basically it signed him and John as a partnership, Lenon McCartney. And so the royalties were split between Northern Songs, Lenon and McCartney.

[00:21:39] Allan Kozinn: Paul wrote with Linda, then that means there'd be Paul's songwriting royalties, but also Linda would be getting a songwriting royalty. So they would be getting a bit more that way than if it was just Paul on his own. Mm-hmm. Uh, so there, there is that possibility. And the [00:22:00] problem was that even though Paul sued the others to get out of Apple in 1971.

[00:22:07] Allan Kozinn: It took until 1975 for that to be settled, and all of Paul's royalties or recording royalties went into Apple, and that includes the albums he made on his own and the albums he made with wings. So he wasn't getting that money. So getting the publishing royalties arranged in a way that would bring in a bit more was probably.

[00:22:32] Allan Kozinn: A useful thing for him because he was basically paying wings, salaries, and he was paying for the equipment and the details of the touring that Wings was doing. He was underwriting that, so he needed, he needed an income stream from somewhere since his recording Royals, he were going to Apple. Mm-hmm. So, very complicated.

[00:22:54] Allan Kozinn: You need like an MBA to sort this through some of this stuff. Paul [00:23:00] decides to expand into a band and begins interviewing various musicians. What is his friend? Danny Lane, who is in the band The Moody Blues.

FORMING WINGS

Choosing the name Wings

[00:23:20] Dave Anthony: Another is Denny Swell. Paul Decides on the band name Wings. , what's the significance of the name Wings.

[00:23:28] Allan Kozinn: What he said was they were thinking of a name at the time that Linda was in the hospital having their second daughter, Stella, actually the third daughter, because Linda had a daughter from a previous marriage who Paul adopted, so that was now his daughter and Mary.

[00:23:47] Allan Kozinn: And then Stella was the third of their four children, and it was a difficult birth. And he was out in the waiting room and saw some image of an [00:24:00] angel and saw the wings, and somehow Wings struck him as a great name for a group. And so. They became wings. There were all kinds of ideas that were rooted about before he came up with wings, like Paul McCartney, blues band and stuff like that, which it wasn't really a blues band, so it wouldn't have made sense.

[00:24:20] Allan Kozinn: There were a lot of names that were kind of silly and, and Wings really does have a ring to it. So

[00:24:28] Dave Anthony: became Wings. This new formation, which includes Paul Linda Denny Lane and Denny Sal. Start recording the next album at EMI London. Denny's are told they're equal partners in the new unnamed band, but that needed to be worked out with the Eastons.

Wings' early pay structure

[00:24:44] Dave Anthony: For the time being, they're paid 70 pounds a week and no contract, just a handshake. In December, 1971, the next album is released and it's now under the name Wings called Wild Life and it contains [00:25:00] the song's, dear Friend and Wildlife, the title track.

WINGS' DEBUT ALBUM WILD LIFE

[00:25:10] Paul McCartney: The animals in a zoo,

[00:25:15] Paul McCartney: you're freezing so hot. A lot of political nonsense in the air.

Mixed reviews and the Apple Corp dispute

[00:25:23] Dave Anthony: There was negative reviews in general, including from George Harrison who called the album Kby. It included some unfinished songs from the RAM sessions, but dear Fred, is an Olive Bridge sold to John Lennon.

[00:25:37] Paul McCartney: it True .

[00:25:57] Dave Anthony: Release of the album was also delayed to Paul's [00:26:00] insistence that no Apple Corp logo appear on the album, which was disputed by EMO and Apple. Paul won and later said one of the infamous short letters in the history of rock and roll to Allen Klein saying, dear Pig, you have nothing to do with my affairs.

[00:26:17] Dave Anthony: So keep out of them and fuck off. Signed pm. 1971 was a pretty massive year for music. The Stones, sticky Fingers. Joni Mitchell Blue The Doors. LA Woman, David Bowie had Hunky Dory. John Lennon. Imagine Arvin Gaye, what's going on? Led Zeppelin four. They could go on and on. In your opinion, how did McCartney's 71 albums Ram and Wildlife match up to some of the classic albums, not to mention the solo efforts released by other Beatles?

How Ram and Wild Life compare to 1971's classics

[00:26:49] Allan Kozinn: Sure. Ram at the time was, as you said, pretty badly reviewed and it wasn't considered quite in the same league in terms of [00:27:00] hipness as most of those albums that you mentioned. But since then, it has, it's really survived very well, and it, it stands up to listening now. As a representative of that period, but it's very personal to Paul in a way.

[00:27:17] Allan Kozinn: It's not Led Zeppelin four and it's a very different kind of album. I think it stands up very well. Wildlife may be a bit less so because with wildlife, when he got that first version of wings together with the two Denny's. Yeah, Linda. They rehearsed for a weekend and then went to London to Abbey Road and started recording and they made the album really quickly.

Recording Wild Life in a single weekend

[00:27:41] Dave Anthony: Well a one take. method on that, didn't they? They just said only one take.

[00:27:45] Allan Kozinn: It wasn't entirely. There was overdubbing and there was editing. When you say one take, it sounds almost as if they've gone into the studio and just played it. And that's the album that's. What they put out that they did, but [00:28:00] it wasn't quite as simple as they said.

[00:28:02] Allan Kozinn: And in volume one of McCartney legacy, we go through all the sessions and exactly what was done and people can see that it wasn't just one take and that's it. Actually, the thing about Wildlife Two is it hasn't quite attained the reputation that Ram has, but. It too has survived, I think better than I would've expected at the time when it came out.

[00:28:27] Allan Kozinn: There are a number of songs on side two. Some people never know things like that and that are really quite. Nice. Carefully made songs with the nice arrangements and well performed, and I think that maybe people think a lot more of the stuff on side one, like [00:29:00] Mumbo and the title song and all that is as being a little bit more ramshackle. And that's the reputation that album has had.
But it's actually, if you revisit it, it's a little better than you may remember. 

GIVE IRELAND BACK TO THE IRISH

[00:29:12] Dave Anthony: We move on to the next single that he releases in February 72. Give Ireland back to the Irish. Paul wasn't known for necessarily for politically themed songs, unlike John. Why do you think this one?

[00:29:32] Allan Kozinn: Well, he is of Irish descent. He was sitting in his home in London listening to the news when Bloody Sunday happened in Ireland, which was basically a massacre of protestors by the British Army Massacre. Might be extreme, but that's the way it was taken at the time people were killed and it, it offended Paul as someone of, as an English person of Irish descent.

Backlash from radio stations and fans

[00:30:00] Allan Kozinn: He basically. He had a dog on both sides of this fight, but didn't think that these two sites should be fighting and felt that the British government should really stand down on that. It is Ireland. Give it back to the Irish. It caused him a lot of trouble. EMI tried to get him not to put it out. A lot of stores refuse to carry it.

[00:30:24] Allan Kozinn: Radio stations refuse to play it. And even when he went on his university tour, a lot of students would come up to him afterwards and say, so are you supporting the IRA now? Which was not what the song was saying, but yeah, there was something about it that, I mean, he even said at the time, yeah, I don't normally like protest songs.

[00:30:47] Dave Anthony: oh, the point about his Irish heritage, of course that would hit a little bit harder. When they started touring. When he starts touring, he wants to do the smaller tours. They're literally are in a van driving around England. He wanted no publicity, just show up and [00:31:00] play.

WINGS' EARLY GIGS ON THE UNIVERSITY TOUR

Back to basics with UK universities

[00:31:00] Dave Anthony: They were playing UK universities. What do you think he was trying to accomplish with the back to basics? Start small. Was there something else going on and then something strange happened that leads Leeds University?

[00:31:12] Allan Kozinn: I think he did wanna start small and he wanted to start unheralded the way you would do a show out of town before bringing it to Broadway.

[00:31:20] Allan Kozinn: That he wanted the band to get some playing experience, uh, without being totally in the national limelight, which they were gonna be because it was him. He wanted to start a new band and he wanted to start it kind of like the Beatles and grow into it, but he realized that. He's still Paul McCartney. He's still very well known.

[00:31:42] Allan Kozinn: He is not gonna be able to just turn up and do a quiet show and gain the experience and, and not have it be the focus of national, international attention. By the time they turned up, it leads the press was there [00:32:00] photographers, everybody was waiting for him, and so they just drove away and then came back to Leeds like four or five days later.

The surprise return to Leeds

[00:32:07] Allan Kozinn: Wow. And did an impromptu concert, which is what they wanted to do. But the thing is that this idea of just getting in a van and driving around is something that went back to the Beatles, not just the early Beatles when that was the way they did it, but around the time of the Get Back, let It Be Sessions.

[00:32:27] Allan Kozinn: Paul was pushing this idea, why don't we just do some concerts in a small club? And John said, you're daft. You can't do that. But this is it. It's just Paul. I think the university tour in a way was Paul working out. Finally, an idea that he brought up towards the end of the Beatles as something he wanted to do, and here he now had his new band and he

FINANCIAL TENSION WITHIN WINGS

Unequal pay fuels frustration

[00:32:50] Dave Anthony: was gonna do it that way.There's the beginnings in 1972 of financial Friction. There's no color track yet for the band. The band are still on the [00:33:00] retainer of 70 pallets per week, and they receive a small share of tours. Drummer Danny Swell and guitarist Henry McCullough are not happy only making union wages for their sessions.

[00:33:11] Dave Anthony: Swell was making way more as a New York session man. He'd go back to New York City to do session work when there were breaks with wings to supplement his income. Paul agrees to a seven year extension in mid 1972 to his publishing contract with Northern Songs, The company that you mentioned before. and of this legal battle unlocks Linda's royalties and they begin to roll in.

[00:33:35] Dave Anthony: They were under dispute in a court order by Northern Songs due to Paul Trade to go around the company with Linda's royalty flow. .

[00:33:45] Dave Anthony: And as quote, all differences have been settled amicably as a press release, unlocked royalties in general began to roll in. Paul buys Lamborghini. The other members of the wings still can't afford a car 'cause money still had not been [00:34:00] settled relative to them being paid, I don't know, 70 pounds a week, something like that.

[00:34:05] Dave Anthony: Right, right. Can you comment on the degree of tension in the band or were being paid this. Out still not being made a full member of the band. This must have been an irritant daily, weekly, et cetera.

The hippie handshake agreement

[00:34:17] Allan Kozinn: It kind of was to an extent, at least the way Denny Sewell explained it, was that when they got together that first weekend before they recorded wildlife to, to form the band.

[00:34:30] Allan Kozinn: Basically, Paul had said, okay, this is gonna be an equal band. Everyone will contribute and everyone will share in the spoils. And they had what Denny called a hippie handshake. And then because they were just starting, Paul decided to put them on a retainer, which was, as you say, 70 pounds a week. And Denny Sewell was a very successful studio drummer in New York, and he gave that up to go.

[00:34:59] Allan Kozinn: To [00:35:00] London and and Scotland. They went back and forth to work with wings on the theory that with is Paul McCartney. This could become big. It became big that he was still getting the 70 pounds a week in 1973 when he finally left. Paul would sometimes give them bonuses for various things, but he. Did find that when he had a couple of weeks off, he would have to fly back to New York and do some studio work.

[00:35:28] Allan Kozinn: Yeah, that it was an issue. It wasn't the only issue, but because there was also an issue that was a little familiar from the Beatles days with Henry McCulloch, the lead guitarist not wanting to be told all the time what notes to play in his solos. And in one instance in My Love,

Creative clashes with Henry McCullough

[00:35:49] Allan Kozinn: which came out in 1973, he said, couldn't I just, couldn't I just try my idea just once. If it doesn't work, we'll do it your way. And [00:36:00] Paul said, oh, well, okay, fine. And he did it . And that is an exquisitely beautiful guitar solo. Paul was the first to admit that. But then right before they broke up, before a band on the run, exactly the same thing happened.

[00:36:25] Allan Kozinn: It was at a rehearsal. Henry McCulloch wanted to play his own idea for a solo. Paul said, no, they had an absolute blowout. Henry packed up his stuff and quit the band. The finances. Had a lot to do with it, but it wasn't the only thing. There were, there were other frustrations within that first version of Wave.

[00:36:46] Dave Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. Is this kind of a repeat a little bit? Uh, the Beatles tensions treating band mates. That Seman being overbearing, but it, I guess that's Paul's nature. He is just wants it to be [00:37:00] perfect in his mind.

A classical composer's approach to control

[00:37:01] Allan Kozinn: He wants it to be the way he wants it to be. Paul, in that way, is like a classical composer. A classical composer writes down the notes that an orchestra or a string gorget or whatever is gonna play, and that's what he expects to hear.

[00:37:14] Allan Kozinn: And with Paul, he's not writing it down, but he has in his mind a very definite idea of what he wants to hear. And at least in that version of wings, he. Wasn't that flexible about it. So, so that did cause that, that kind of issue. And you're right, we, we did see some of that in the Beatles as well. There's that scene in Let It Be with George saying I'll play anything you want or I won't play it all.

[00:37:41] Allan Kozinn: Whatever it is that

[00:37:41] Dave Anthony: will please you. I'll do it in March, 1973. The other three Beatles tell Klein his contract will not be renewed. This seems to help men, tensions between Paul and the other Beatles. Let's say that possibly Paul's suspicions about Helen Klein were right, said John Lennon. Next legal [00:38:00] battles begin to be resolved and Paul pushes forward with new albums and the producers of James Bond.

THE END OF ALLEN KLEIN'S CONTRACT AND WINGS' RISING FAME

[00:38:07] Dave Anthony: Make a surprise offer,

[00:38:11] Announcer: kick back, relax, and enjoy your trip. From the Garage to Global Stadiums,

Red Rose Speedway and My Love

[00:38:16] Dave Anthony: the next album by Paul and Wings is in. April of 1973 and it's called Red Rose Speedway, which contains the number one hit. My Love,

[00:38:35] Paul McCartney: my Love,

Live and Let Die and Bond movie success

[00:38:41] Dave Anthony: and this is followed by a known album single in June 73. Called Live and Let Die

[00:38:52] Paul McCartney: Living. Let Die
[00:38:58] Paul McCartney: Die.

[00:39:09] Dave Anthony: She becomes the title track for a James Boland movie of the same title. It was nominated for a best song at the Oscars. McCartney was a noted control freak, and that came out loud and clear during our Beatles episode. So it's no surprise that as rehearsals spur the next album beginning in August, 1973, that Paul is up to his old drill sergeant ways by controlling most aspects of everyone's playing.

LINEUP CHANGES AND THE ROAD TO A LEGENDARY ALBUM

[00:39:37] Dave Anthony: And accordingly, a couple of members of the band drummer, Danny Swell and guitarist Henry McCullough. Quit on McCartney due to escalating tensions around money and McCartney's controlling nature. Next, Paul determined as ever, soldiers on with only Linda McCartney and Danny Lane in tow and heads for an odd [00:40:00] destination to record a rock elbow, which would become legendary.

[00:40:06] Dave Anthony: Thanks for listening to part one of the story of Paul McCartney and Wings. Join us for part two where Paul

[00:40:13] Dave Anthony: heads for an odd destination to record a rock album, which would become legendary.

REBUILDING WINGS AND RECORDING BAND ON THE RUN

[00:00:00] Dave Anthony: Welcome to part two of the Story of Paul McCartney and Wings, where we'll discuss with our guest Alan Cozen, Paul's efforts at continuing to put out albums and hits despite the internal struggle facing the personnel of the band. We'll also look at Paul's continuing relationship with the Beatles on the legal front, and we'll also discuss a mysterious offer that surfaces for an incredible amount of money for the Beatles to reunite despite the de defection of two members.

Choosing Lagos, Nigeria as the recording site

[00:00:30] Dave Anthony: McCartney decides to plot on with only Linda McCartney and Denny Lane. He decides on Legos Nigeria as the recording site for the wing's Next album. Nigeria was a British colon until 1963 and it had undergone a military coup in 1966. There was targeted assassinations of the Prime Minister, regional premiers and top military officers.

[00:00:55] Dave Anthony: The brutal operation resulted in the deaths of over 20 people. Simple war from 67 to 1970 continued, and Lagos was not really a modern city. Sanitation was very basic. There was constant disease, outbreaks, and crime was a challenging problem. Robbers were up and executed in public, and Paul actually saw an execution on the beach one day, and Paul and Linda were even robbed at knife point.

[00:01:23] Dave Anthony: It's interesting when you move forward, all this kind of culminates. When the band on the Rud album is being conceived in of all places, leg of Nigeria. Which Paul chooses to record the November 73, the Wings. I Ban On the Run. On the run,

Band on the Run in the studio

[00:01:45] Dave Anthony: on the run, man, and searching everyone, all the, the teams, obviously they hit Bando, the run, the pedal track.

[00:02:14] Dave Anthony: Let me roll it.

[00:02:22] Dave Anthony: I can tell you,

[00:02:33] Dave Anthony: Mrs. Vanderbilt hope. When you lying is on the blink, you never think I'm worrying

[00:02:50] Dave Anthony: Bluebird and last we will be. A blue Blue,

[00:03:03] Dave Anthony: a 1,985. I never dreamed.

[00:03:20] Dave Anthony: Helen Wheel

[00:03:26] Dave Anthony: Wheel.

Chart success despite a stripped-down lineup

[00:03:35] Dave Anthony: The US released in the albums, great reviews. The album hit number one in the US and UK and many other countries. And what I find incredible, Alan, is that Paul having lost these. Members of the band, essentially, they quit over the issues. You mentioned that McCarthy himself handles lead guitar rhythm, acoustic guitars, bass guitar, drums, percussion in addition to vocals and keyboards, and he does it in, by all accounts of substandard studio, live offs, Nigeria, and out comes banned on the run.

[00:04:09] Dave Anthony: This killer elbow, the guy's just so incredible when you think of achieving that with back to the backdrop.

Linda and Denny Laine's contributions

[00:04:18] Allan Kozinn: Yeah, that's true. Denny Lane was still in the group, right? He, he did some of those guitar parts and bass parts, and Linda by then had, she had taken a lot of criticism when she joined the group because she wasn't really a keyboard player and he just wanted her in it
but by then she was
[00:04:36] Allan Kozinn: getting to be pretty good. She contributed a lot of those synthesizer lines that you hear on the band on the run album. Those are hers. And in fact, when Paul was arranging to have some of it orchestrated, she was listening to the discussion with Tony Visconti, who was gonna do the orchestration, and he proposed an idea and she said, no, you're not burying my synthesizer line.

[00:05:01] Allan Kozinn: So she even took some pride of authorship there. But yeah, it was difficulty. Denny Sewell wanted to, when Henry quit. Which was two weeks before they left for Legos to record that album. Denny Sewell said, look, we've been rehearsing this album as a band, and why don't we just get another lead guitarist, break in, a lead guitarist, and go and record it as a band.

[00:05:27] Allan Kozinn: Now, Denny Sewell had been the drummer on Ram, which was just Paul Denny Swell and one guitarist, uh Hu Hugh McCracken, and in some cases David Spinoza. And so Paul said, no, we'll just do it like Ram, when Denny didn't want to do it that way. He wanted it to be a band album. So yeah, there's a certain degree to which band on the run was like Ram, or to some extent, even the McCartney album, where Paul did play all the instruments.

[00:05:57] Allan Kozinn: And yet it turned out to be an incredible album. But that's partly because. Paul has a, uh, one other aspect of his personality. You could talk about wanting to control things, all that stuff. But another aspect of it is that if someone tells him he can't do something or shouldn't do something, he will say, I'll show you.

The 'I'll show you' factor

[00:06:17] Allan Kozinn: And, and so he may band on the run and he basically showed everyone it turned, it went to number one in the US three separate times.

[00:06:26] Dave Anthony: Wow.

[00:06:27] Allan Kozinn: Yep.

[00:06:28] Dave Anthony: That's amazing. That's an interesting insight there about the. Show you Factor. While Baki of the globe of the success of Band of the Ron McCartney also has other good news, constructive discussions between all four Beatles have begun on how to work out and unwinding their business interests.

NEW LINEUP, NEW TENSIONS

Jimmy McCulloch joins as lead guitarist

[00:06:46] Dave Anthony: Now that the other three Beatles have fired Alan Klein Scottish guitarist, Jimmy McCulloch now joins the band, but it quickly becomes clear that he's a heavy drinker and ultimately he becomes critical of Linda McCartney's musical abilities. 1974, when they got Jimmy McCulloch became their lead guitarist.

[00:07:07] Allan Kozinn: He had some rough words with Linda. He could reduce her to tears. And that put Paul in a tough position because he wanted Jimmy McCulloch to be the lead guitarist and. Didn't necessarily want the band members attacking his wife,

[00:07:22] Dave Anthony: the side men who came in and outta wings. That was a prelude to the movie Spinal Tap with so many lineup changes incredible. Linda McCartney's musicianship. It's always been a thorn in the side of many. Why do you think Paul and Linda did not see the writing of the wall? That she should probably not be in the studio or on stage.

Linda grows into her role

[00:07:41] Allan Kozinn: He wanted her there and that was. Basically all there was to it and, and she did improve by the time of the Wings Over America tour in 1976, she was playing.

[00:07:53] Allan Kozinn: She was able to play her parts perfectly well, and the trouble with the other band members stopped after. Wings over America. The World Tour 75, 76. That was an awful lot of concerts. It was over a year of them, and she s bore up pretty well under that by the time of the next iteration of wings with Lawrence Juer and Steve Holly, and they both have perfectly nice things to say about Linda, including as a musician.

[00:08:24] Allan Kozinn: So she grew into the role. It, it took a while, but she did it and. Let's also not forget that her vocal contributions were a really important aspect of the wing sound. So even if the keyboards took a while for her to develop as a singer, the blend of Paul Denny Lane and Linda is the classic wing sound is very crucial to the wing sound.

[00:08:51] Allan Kozinn: She would give interviews and she would be completely straightforward and say, look. I didn't wanna be in this band. I didn't wanna be a rock star. Paul wants me to do it, and he, he just wants me on stage with him, and so I'm doing it. But I could be, I would be perfectly happy sitting on our farm in Scotland looking at the sheep riding horses and raising my vegetable gardens.

[00:09:17] Allan Kozinn: It, it wasn't something she insisted on doing. He insisted, and that was it.

[00:09:22] Dave Anthony: Hmm. That's an interesting retake 'cause she's taken a lot of heat over the years, perceptually from many corners, and the musical chairs of personnel and wings continues. The press reports that Paul is looking for a new full-time drummer.

MORE MUSICAL CHAIRS AND FINANCIAL STRUGGLES

A new contract falls apart

[00:09:38] Dave Anthony: His office is flooded with hundreds of applications and they narrow it down to 52 drummers to audition. Finally, there is an attempt to rectify the financial situation for the musicians of the band. A two year contract for the band members to sign, which will give them a percentage of touring box office plus royalties on recording.

[00:09:57] Dave Anthony: And this is discussed with the musicians in July, 1974 in Nashville. However, only two weeks later, a drunken episode of Newest Recruit, Jimmy McCullough Anchors McCartney, and he tells his manager Linda's father, Lee Eastman, to rip up the proposed contracts and instead. Eastman poses a super session fee, which will be paid when in studio of 170 pounds.

[00:10:26] Dave Anthony: The contracts that were presented in Nashville were now off the table, more musical chairs In January, 1975 with Jeff Bri, fired as a drummer and replaced by Joe English, who was so broke that he could not afford the plane ticket. To join the wings recording session in New Orleans. In the spring of 1975, Paul's Inlaws, the Eastmans negotiated a lucrative four year extension with EMI capital.

[00:10:53] Dave Anthony: The fact that they go through so many musical chairs on the band front, obviously it's economics, it's Paul being controlling. It's the things we've talked about. But I guess my question to you, if I dig a bit deeper here with you, is this still true in some ways that this band that he tries to form. I'll call it a bad costume that he tried to disguise himself in.

[00:11:17] Dave Anthony: Do you think he may have been subconsciously or even consciously avoiding creating an actual functioning band given the experience of the Beatles, his own personality, et cetera?

Why the band never became a true democracy

[00:11:29] Allan Kozinn: That's an interesting question. I, I doubt it. I think he really did want to have a functioning band, and he would've liked it if it, the personnel had remained constant.

[00:11:40] Allan Kozinn: With the next version of wings. It was really in a way, nothing to do with him. Jimmy McCulloch tended to like to drink a bit too much, and one day he decided he wasn't gonna come out and play at Encore. And Paul decked him and, and then at one point, right before Paul finally fired him, he trashed one of Paul's cabins, a kitchen.

[00:12:03] Allan Kozinn: Took all of these sort of freshly laid eggs that Linda had supplied the kitchen with and smashed them all over the place. And finally Paul had enough and said, okay, that's that. The drummer in that band, Joe English, was an American. Paul tried to do everything he could to move Joe's wife and daughter to England, and they just didn't like it.

[00:12:25] Allan Kozinn: So they stayed in Georgia and Joe got homesick and his wife got into a car crash and he felt he needed to be with her, so he left then. So both of those departures really aren't anything Paul could really control.

[00:12:41] Dave Anthony: Although in the book, I think it says Joe Engli quits the wings instead, "The music was sort of getting on my nerves. It was pure commercial stuff." Nothing else in wings that could never interfere with McCartney's thing.

[00:12:54] Allan Kozinn: Ha. Yeah. Okay. Because he, he came to it from a soul blues band's background, and maybe that's how he felt, but he didn't say any of that stuff while he was in wings. Right. But yeah, that's, that's a good point. Maybe it was a little too commercial for him. And I think it also dawned on all the wings members at, at a certain point that while Paul. Ideally wants this to be a real band of equals. It's never going to be a real band of equals, so long as only one of them is a former Beatle. Yeah, it's just not, not realistic.

VENUS AND MARS HITS THE CHARTS

[00:13:31] Dave Anthony: In May of 75, the album of Venus and Mars is released. Containing rock Show up. Listen to what the man said. That's what said.

[00:13:47] Dave Anthony: Said, he said,

[00:13:52] Dave Anthony: which went number one in the us, number six in the uk. It also contained. The song Venus and Mars, a.

[00:14:13] Dave Anthony: And another one called Letting Go

THE BEATLES REUNION OFFERS THAT NEVER HAPPENED

The $30 million television offer

[00:14:29] Dave Anthony: Next, a music promoter comes forward with a multimillion dollar offer to The Beatles to get back together for one performance.

[00:14:39] Announcer: Are you a fan of Bob Dylan? The who? Jim Morrison or Bob Marley. Check out garage to stadiums on Spotify, apple Podcasts and more.

[00:14:50] Dave Anthony: In January, 1976. An incredible offer appears promoter Bill Sargent offers the deals a $30 million advance to do a one-time televised live show with closed circuit screening and record for an album.

[00:15:06] Dave Anthony: Total payout would've been an estimated $200 million, but he's turned down in March 76 Comes wings at the speed of sound containing. Song called Silly Love Souls Love doesn't come in a minute. Sometimes it doesn't come at all, which went to number one in the US and number two in the uk. And another hit called Let Him In. Somebody ringing Bell. Do favor picking up on that outrageous offer by Bill Sergeant Saturday Night Live. Producer Lauren Michaels offers the Beatles. A grand total of $3,000 to reunite and play three songs on SNL. And Paul and Joellen are watching the show at John's apartment and thinking about jumping in a cab and going to the studio but are too tired in a later show.

Saturday Night Live's $3,000 offer

[00:16:17] Dave Anthony: George Harrison is a guest and they did a bid about George trying to collect the money from Michaels. In December of 1976, a live elbow called Wings Over America is released containing a live version of, maybe I'm amazed,

[00:16:41] Dave Anthony: maybe I'm You love me all the time. It's several other tracks. It sells extremely well. Next, the musical chairs of Band members continue. Paul responds with a surprising plan.

WINGS AT THE SPEED OF SOUND AND MULL OF KINTYRE

A salaried offer to end the band's financial disputes

[00:16:58] Announcer: Want more garage to stadiums? Check out garage to stadiums.com for official playlists, concert footage, and other interesting facts. For each episode,

[00:17:11] Dave Anthony: Paul blindly addresses the financial discontent and ambiguity of the band arrangement. Offers the band members at CONGRA to be employees of McCartney Music Inc. With an annual salary of a hundred k plus bonuses for touring and recording. But just as that deal is settling in a dramatic turn occurs in a drunken rage.

Jimmy McCulloch's downward spiral

[00:17:31] Dave Anthony: Guitars Jimmy McCullough wrecks the kitchen of one of the cottages at Paul's Scottish property where everyone is staying and recording the next hit that Paul will, Elise Mul of Tyre. Next morning, Paul wakes him up and tells him to get off his property and he's out. Similar to everyone else who leaves the wings, Jimmy had been frustrated with money and the lack of creative freedom.

[00:17:54] Dave Anthony: Paul micromanaged and mapped out all of Jimmy's solos, and Jimmy died two years later at age 26. Then a couple months later, drummer Joe English quits the wing. 1970 sevens Mole of Kintyre was the first single to sell over 2 million copies in the UK coming at the time, the biggest selling UK single. The Bag Pike led Ballad became a massive phenomenon. It remains one of the bestselling non charity singles in, in British history, and that March, 1978, the next WINGS album, Londontown is released. Containing the hit sold with a Little luck, which went to number one in the us. It also contained a soul called, I've had a,

PAUL'S MUSIC PUBLISHING EMPIRE

A business model built on publishing

[00:19:05] Dave Anthony: is it fair to say that Paul McCartney will. Never be considered or identified in textbooks on human resource of practices like he was controlling, managing nature.

[00:19:16] Allan Kozinn: You could probably say that, but he could be considered a textbook case for business models because he's done quite well by diversifying into publishing. People don't really focus much on his publishing career, which is just a sideline, but it has made him an extremely wealthy man. And that's without owning the Beatles catalog.

[00:19:40] Dave Anthony: Let's talk about how he earned that, how he got there. Obviously there's a couple obvious reasons, but maybe give us some insight on that.

Buying the Buddy Holly catalog

[00:19:47] Allan Kozinn: Well, principally we can return to Lee Eastman, his father-in-law, who we mentioned earlier, Lee owned publishing companies and. Was a lawyer for publishing companies. He knew the publishing field really well. And basically what he said to Paul is, when you have money that you wanna invest, you might as well invest it into something you love.

[00:20:11] Allan Kozinn: What do you love? Well help. Paul loved songwriting and he loved songs and he loved all of the old classic songs going way back. So the first thing that he did with Lee's help. Lee representing him as his lawyer, as he bought the Buddy Holly catalog. Paul loved Buddy Holly. And so now he owned Buddy Holly's catalog and that was a start.

[00:20:36] Allan Kozinn: And then over the years other companies would come up and he ended up owning lots of American standard songbook. He ended up owning a company that had a lot of Broadway musicals like Annie and Greece. And quite a lot of those shows that were extremely successful

The most lucrative recording deal in history

[00:20:58] Dave Anthony: in 1979, Paul would receive $20 million over three years with annual $2 million advance plus a royalty of a then unheard of 22% per album. The industry standard is 3%, 5%,

[00:21:13] Allan Kozinn: and even when, when he signed with Columbia Records in 1979 for. It was really just for a few years. But one of the things that Lee negotiated was that Columbia owned a publishing company that had a lot of songs Paul liked in it, and, and the publishing company became part of the deal. So he didn't get just an advance and just royalties. He got a publishing company out. So he owns a ton of songs and they're now published under his company, which is called MPL. Anybody can go online and look up MPL and you can get lists of the things that Paul owns. And it's, yeah, just startling how much music he owns. So with, and yet, the one thing that he really has always wanted and hasn't been able to get his hands on is the Lennon McCartney catalog. And long feil.

The elusive Lennon-McCartney catalog

[00:22:11] Dave Anthony: 'Cause Michael Jackson at one point owned the Northern Publishing.

[00:22:14] Allan Kozinn: Sony owns it now. Michael Jackson ended up having to sign a lot of it over to Sony to his own deal. Yeah. So that came up for sale and it somehow slipped through his fingers. He's always blamed Yoko, actually, he said that when that came up for sale, he thought that he and Yoko should buy it together because it's. Him and John and Yoko, he says, kept saying that she could get it cheaper. She could get it cheaper, and finally Michael Jackson had it. So whoa, what the actual truth is there. I haven't quite gotten to yet, but theoretically in volume three of McCartney legacy, we should get there.

THE COLUMBIA DEAL AND ROYALTY DISPUTES

A royalty increase the other Beatles didn't know about

[00:22:56] Dave Anthony: That brings up an interesting question. When he signed, what was then the most lucrative recording deal in history in 1979? . EMI agreed as part of its deal to increase Paul's royalties on the Beatles back catalog. This was not known by John, George and Ringo. Did this ever get revealed that they ever played out?

[00:23:16] Allan Kozinn: Yes. Ringo found out when he was appearing in Paul's movie, give My regards to Broad Street, and he found out about it then. That was in 1983 and the other Beatles were quite upset about that because. Their feeling was it was all for one. One for all. There's no reason one of them should be getting higher recording royalties than the others. Now, Paul's argument was, well, could have said, I want part of some other catalog, but it's us.

[00:23:48] Allan Kozinn: I could have said, I want part of the Beach Boys catalog, but I said, I want part of our catalog. So from his point of view, that was a legitimate request. It didn't, it's not like because he was getting more, they were getting less. He was just getting more and they were getting what they were getting right, but they were very upset about that.

Paul skips the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction

[00:24:07] Allan Kozinn: And that's, and, and that battle between them is why when the Beatles were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1990, Paul didn't turn up because he felt that, wait a minute, we're having these knockdown drag out battles. It'd be kind of hypocritical for me to turn up and accept this. So he didn't, and the others did.

[00:24:28] Allan Kozinn: George just said that's a pity Paul didn't come because he's the one with the speech. Yeah. When they finally settled it, it wasn't the first time something like that happened. Back in the days towards the earlier part of this discussion with the Klein versus Eastman thing, Lee Eastman had recommended to Paul that he buy up more shares of Northern Songs.

History repeats with Northern Songs shares

[00:24:51] Allan Kozinn: And Paul bought more shares of Northern Songs. He and John originally had the same amount of shares. Each. Paul bought some more, didn't bother mentioning it to John. When John found out about it, he was really upset and Paul basically made the same argument that he made about the royalties later, which is I wanted to invest in something I. Thought, why not invest in us?

[00:25:16] Dave Anthony: That was a public entity, so he was really buying shares of the public market, which he has every right to do.

[00:25:22] Allan Kozinn: Right. And John felt that if he was gonna do that, he should have told him and he would've had the opportunity to match the number of shares. But whatever it was, there was always something going on that Right. One of them was upset about, uh,

CLOSING OUT THE 1970S

[00:25:37] Dave Anthony: in November, 1979, the no one album, single wonderful Christmas time is released. It does extremely well. In May of 1980, Paul releases McCartney two, a solo album, and it contains the hit coming up, which went to number one in the US and number two in the uk. Next, we discussed Paul's personality and his legacy and ask a key question about his motives in starting another band.

[00:26:20] Announcer: Want more garage to stadiums? Visit us on Instagram, YouTube X, Facebook, and LinkedIn

DESCRIBING PAUL'S PERSONALITY

An incredibly creative and likable guy

[00:26:32] Dave Anthony: After hearing Paul's Bull's story, the audience, as I'm sure forming some opinions on Paul Alan, you've done such extensive, incredible amount of research on this subject. How would you, after all you've done, and looking back on your excellent works, how would you describe his personality if we said, give us sort of a short synopsis of who Paul really is?

[00:26:57] Allan Kozinn: Well, he is an incredibly creative guy. That's just a base. He's really actually quite likable. I've interviewed hundreds of people really over the years. You walk into a room to interview Paul, and he has a way of making you feel as if you're just old pals and he has nothing he'd rather do than talk to you.

[00:27:25] Allan Kozinn: Now, as a journalist. that can't be true, but that's his superpower in a way. On the other hand, he's very, as we've said, very determined to have things the way he wants it. And once he sets his mind on something, that's what it's gonna be. In volume three, we're gonna write about, give my regards to Broad Street.

Give My Regards to Broad Street

[00:27:45] Allan Kozinn: His movie, the one where Ringo found out about those royalties. He was advised by a lot of people that the script for this, it just wasn't very good. He did it himself, and he's not a filmmaker or wasn't a filmmaker, and everyone advised him against it, including his manager. Who he then fired for advising him against it.

[00:28:11] Allan Kozinn: And then when it got really bad reviews, he said, Hey, I, I wish someone would've told me. So that's an aspect of Paul too. He comes with gazillions of ideas and a lot of them are spectacular. Some of them are maybe not very good at all, and he will wanna do them all and see what the consequences are, and you can't talk him out of it because he's very headstrong.

[00:28:38] Dave Anthony: A few words that you're saying are creative heads and strong, bold in terms of the fortune, favors, the bolt. The guy's made a fortune. He's made some mistakes along the way, but you can't bolt him for his courage. That's for sure.

Remarkably personable

[00:28:52] Allan Kozinn: He's also remarkably personable. That's the other aspect of it. Everybody who works with you don't run into a lot of people who say he is one nasty dude. Right. Everyone says he is the nicest guy.

[00:29:05] Dave Anthony: Even Keith , when I read Keith Richards book, my Life, I, I didn't expect Keith to Paul to be friends, but he spoke very highly about 'em. They got together, they jammed a little bit, and he loved them. Yeah. It's incredible that these two fellows, 15 and 16 hunker down in bedrooms right together, face to face, nose to nose. Then ultimately the rivalry begins Rolling Stone Magazine. Do you think they helped create the perception that cool fans like Lennon and Teeny Boppers like Paul, you couldn't like both or do you think that was an influence on the John Paul rivalry among fans?

HOW ROLLING STONE SHAPED THE LENNON-MCCARTNEY RIVALRY

The 'cool John, square Paul' narrative

[00:29:44] Allan Kozinn: I think it absolutely was, and I grew up reading Rolling Stone at that time and listening to the radio and all of that, and they definitely did put forth this narrative that John was the cool revolutionary one, and Paul was the sort of straight low song singing pop guy. It wasn't so much that you could only like one, you could like them both, but John was still the cool one as they were presenting it.

[00:30:14] Allan Kozinn: There was, I think, a reason for that, um, which was John Winter. The publisher and founder, first editor of Rolling Stone went to London in April, 1970 and interviewed Paul the day before. Paul sent out copies of the McCartney album, which in the British press copies included a self interview. In which he said, yeah, I don't think I'm gonna be working with the Beatles again.

[00:30:42] Allan Kozinn: And a lot of things that were instant headlines. And he didn't actually mention this to Wener Wener must have sent back his story, must have been on deadline, and wrote a story with no references to this. And then the very next day, the British headlines are Paul Quis Beatles. So. Probably was a little unhappy about that, whereas Lenin would sit down and give him long, completely open interviews.

[00:31:15] Allan Kozinn: Pretty regularly. Anything Winter wanted, he could call John and John would be there and would answer the questions. So from from Winter's point of view, that was a much better relationship. And when the review of the McCartney album came in at Rolling Stone, it was originally just a straightforward and positive review.

[00:31:37] Allan Kozinn: Winter called the writer and said, you don't really understand what this is. This isn't just an album, it's a manifesto, and you have to treat it that way. Right. And so the review was rewritten and it became all about how this album is like Trojan Horse and there's Army about to come out and wreck the Beatles.

[00:31:57] Allan Kozinn: Oh, it was? Yeah, it was like that. And Rolling Stone definitely did have a hand. Creating this idea that John was cool and Paul wasn't, and, and that's kind of a shame.

[00:32:08] Dave Anthony: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because when you look at the, the Beatles, there it was Paul who lived in London. He was the one going to the clubs. John lived in the suburbs. Paul was underrated relative to his exploration and innovation of culture. So I think your point is well taken. Two parter question. Here's the, the question of questions. Because we're gonna talk a little bit about his legacy here. If Paul had only been in the Beatles, what would his place in history be? And the second part, ell, his second act is a solo performer and member of Wings looked upon when music history is told.

PAUL'S LASTING LEGACY

What if Paul had only been in the Beatles?

[00:32:47] Allan Kozinn: His legacy, if he had only been in the Beatles, I think would still be. Amazing because the Beatles themselves, the catalog that they recorded from my point of view, is the Zenith of Western civilization. But no, not to put too fine a point.

[00:33:07] Dave Anthony: How do you really feel?

[00:33:09] Allan Kozinn: So the Beatles' music will always be out there. People will always. Love it. You keep seeing generation after generation. When I was growing up, we would never have listened to our parents' music. I listen to it now, but I wouldn't have as a kid. But you see kids listening to the Beatles music and we're now old enough to be their grandparents, that music is always fresh. It's always great. And so even if Paul had never done another thing, even if none of them had ever done another thing. It would still be an amazing catalog, the greatest pop catalog of the 20th century after the Beatles.

A prolific post-Beatles catalog

[00:33:48] Allan Kozinn: I think because of what we said about how to describe Paul and the incredibly creative aspect, he just wasn't going to stop, and he's continued and he's developed over the years. He's done tons of really interesting things. These are things we haven't even talked about, like his classical stuff and wrote a ballet.

[00:34:10] Allan Kozinn: He's done a lot of sort of avant garde experimental things and weird dance music, things like with the firemen, and so he's just, his creativity has allowed him to create a really impressive post Beatles catalog to, and Wings is only a part of that. Wings was only the first decade. They broke up really in 1981.

[00:34:34] Allan Kozinn: After that, he's done a ton of extremely good stuff. Some stuff that isn't amazing, but at his best, his best stuff is really as good as a lot of the Beatles best Almed

[00:34:49] Dave Anthony: concert. 10 years ago maybe I was blown away. I I the performance, he refused to leave the stage. He must have been on there for three hours.

[00:34:58] Allan Kozinn: That's right.

[00:34:59] Dave Anthony: He just gives a great show and when you see that catalog in action. Kind like me. We're witnessing history in here. The guy is a legend. That's absolutely true. He is. He really has done some astonishing work. What are three songs you think the audience should give a listen or re-listen to to get an appreciation of his post Beatles work?

THREE ESSENTIAL POST-BEATLES SONGS

Backseat of My Car

[00:35:19] Allan Kozinn: It's a really difficult question. On any given day, I, I would go up with three other songs. So we're talking about three post Beatles songs, correct? The, the first would be backseat of my car on the Ram album. Pretty. We may end up in Mexico

[00:35:45] Allan Kozinn: Room. There's a lot of influence in that song of Brian Wilson, of the Beach Boys, who Paul absolutely admired. Sure. Both in terms of backing vocal harmonies and melodically, and so backseat of my car is like a little rock symphony. This is a story. There's a two kids and their parents are sort of frowning upon them being out late and all that stuff, and they just want to do it and maybe drive down to Mexico and.

[00:36:14] Allan Kozinn: And, and get free of it all, but it, it is an exquisitely beautiful song and it's on Ram. The second one I would choose is Picasso's. Last words drink to me from band on the Run.

Picasso's Last Words

[00:36:38] Allan Kozinn: Before he went, he beat us partly because I think you need to have something from Band on the run and from Wings and Picasso's. Last word is not the first song people choose. You know, people would go with the title song or Jet, or one of those Picasso's last words. Is really interesting because first of all, he wrote it like he or at least wrote the seed of it at a dinner with Dustin Hoffman, where Dustin Hoffman said, could you write a song about just anything?

[00:37:12] Allan Kozinn: Like what about this? And he picked up a Time or Newsweek magazine where Picasso had just died and it included Picasso's last words. Paul can just write a song out of nowhere, and he did that in front of Dustin Hoffman and Dustin Hoffman to say, I can't believe it. He's doing it. But then he took it to Legos.

[00:37:34] Allan Kozinn: He recorded it at Ginger Baker Studio and ended up making it into a multi-car sing where there's a bit of a French radio, supposed to represent what Picasso was hearing on his last night. And he took A BB, C French. Language tape and put it in there and had some clarinet and brought some people in to do a kind of lightly jazzy thing to go with it.

[00:38:07] Allan Kozinn: And at the same time, he reprises themes from band On the run, there's a bit of jet in it,

[00:38:18] Allan Kozinn: jet jet, there's a bit of Mrs. Vanderbilt, and then at the very end band on the run seam comes back in. So it sort of weaves it all in. And what I like about that is. The complexity of that song. And there was a part also it, it's not even exactly as he recorded it, he decided to chop it up into sections and move sections around.

[00:38:47] Allan Kozinn: So it's a very creative use of the recording studio, and it's a great song too. Hm. And then the third one is from 1989 from the Flowers in the Dirt album, and it's my brace Chase. Save me.

My Brave Face

[00:39:20] Allan Kozinn: And it's a collaboration with Elvis Costello, with whom he wrote basically in albums worth of materials. It appears on a number of his albums in Elvis' albums. I think that Elvis Costello was probably his best collaborator since John Lennon, because Elvis has this tough edge that John had. And my brave face is, it's a song about someone who's after a breakup, he's on his own and he is not used to it.

[00:39:47] Allan Kozinn: And he says, breaking up the dirty dishes and throwing them away, kind of thing. So, and it's also, again, melodically beautiful backing Vos. Everything about it is it, it just clicks right into place. So those would be my three picks for today. But if we talk next week. It could be three others. But, uh,

WRAPPING UP WITH ALLAN KOZINN

[00:40:07] Dave Anthony: today we've been talking to Allan Kozinn, the co-author, along with documentarian Adrian Sinclair, of a two volume pair of books called the McCarthy Legacy, a retrospective of Paul McCartney's Career from the End of The Beatles Onward. And volume three is coming,

[00:40:25] Allan Kozinn: I would say 2028 probably.

[00:40:27] Dave Anthony: The detail that Alan puts in these books is incredible. And if you're a McCartney fan. The Beatles fan, you'll wanna start with volume one, and it's unbelievably scholarly work, I will say, Alan. So congrats on the book. Thank you. And thanks so much for eliminating us on a lot of elements of Paul and Wings and most Beatles there.

[00:40:50] Allan Kozinn: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

PAUL McCARTNEY CLOSING NOTES

Musical beginnings and instruments

[00:40:53] Dave Anthony: Some closing notes on Paul McCartney. As we discussed on our episode on Paul, he's a multi-instrumentalist. The first reasonable instrument he played was the Trumpet, which was a gift from his dad for his 14th birthday, which he later traded for guitar, and Paul was originally the guitar player for the Beatles when they were known as the Corman.

[00:41:13] Dave Anthony: It only began playing bass guitar after the so-called forgotten Beatle. Stuart Sutcliffe quit the group in 1961. McCartney's Peak accomplishment was probably in playing instruments on the Wings album band on the run where he played four different types of guitar lead rhythm, acoustic and bass. He played piano, keyboards, drums of percussion, and also provided lead vocals.

The origin of the name Wings

[00:41:40] Dave Anthony: The band named Wings came to Paul while he was pre in the hospital during the difficult birth of his daughter, Stella. In 1971, he imagined, quote, an angel with big wings, and Paul intentionally named the Band Wings rather than the Wings to distinguish it from the Beatles. Stella, by the way, survived a win on to become a famous clothing designer known globally for her innovative fashions.

Adversity during the Band on the Run sessions

[00:42:07] Dave Anthony: The recording of the classic band on the Run album by Paul McCarney and Wings was full of adversity. GA guitarist, color and drummer, Denny swa left the crew. Leaving the band is just a trio of Paul McCartney, Linda McCartney, and Denny Lane to head to. Lagos Nigeria to record this meant Paul had to play multiple instruments while in Lagos, Paul and Linda were Mag Point.

[00:42:31] Dave Anthony: The robbers took a bag containing demo tapes and lyrics, but did not hurt them. In legendary Nigerian musician, Fela Kuti accused McCartney of coming to Nigeria to quote, steal African music. And finally, Paul actually collapsed in the studio due to a bronchial spasm brought on by excessive smoking. And the hot climate Since 1960, Paul McCartney has been arrested six times in various global locations as follows, in Hamburg, Germany in 1960, in the pre fame days when the Beatles played, lived there, Paul was charged with arson.

[00:43:08] Dave Anthony: He tried to make a makeshift candle that caused a fire. Two, he was arrested in 1972 in Sweden. Which was incidentally one of the inspirations for the song band on the Run. Three in 1973 for possession of cannabis at his country home. Four in 1975 in Los Angeles, where his wife, American born Linda McCartney, took the fall for.

[00:43:34] Dave Anthony: So that he did not lose his US visa. Five, the penultimate time in 1980 in Japan where he spent nine days in jail after arriving in Tokyo with 200 grams of pot, which led to cancellation of the Japanese tour and. And number six. One more time for his final time in the jailbird bracelets. Paul was arrested in 1984 in Barbados again for another possession of cannabis.

A longtime cannabis legalization advocate

[00:44:01] Dave Anthony: Paul McCartney has been an advocate for the legalization of cannabis from as early as. July, 1967, he alone with other Beatles and other prominent figures of the day, paid for an advertisement in the Times newspaper declaring that quote, the law against marijuana is immoral in principle and unworkable in practice, unquote.

The Mark Ronson rescue story

[00:44:20] Dave Anthony: Did you know that Paul McCartney went to save from drowning? Multiple crabby winning producer Mark Ronson Ronson is well known for his work with a v Winehouse Lady Gaga, Bruno Warez Ade A Dua Lipa. But when Ronson was seven years old. He entered the waters off Long Island, New York, and soon was in trouble in the waves.

[00:44:40] Dave Anthony: Paul McCartney just happened to be there with his first wife. Linda and Paul leapt into action and rescued Mark. And in a strange twist, here's how it was verified. Mark S confirmed it with Paul when he acted as Paul's producer on McCartney's 2013 album entitled New. If anyone downed Paul McCartney establishing himself as a second act after he quit the Beatles, his hit 1970 seven's mole of Kintyre must have certainly convinced them it was the first single to sell over 2 million copies in the UK coming at the time, the biggest selling uk.

Record-breaking hits: Mull of Kintyre and Silly Love Songs

[00:45:19] Dave Anthony: The bagpipe led ballad became a massive phenomenon. It remains one of the bestselling non charity singles in in British history. We discussed how reviews were often harsh when it came to McCartney's post Beatles albums. Well, Paul had the last say when he wrote the hit silly love songs in 1976 as a direct response to critics who locked him for writing sentimental love song.

[00:45:44] Dave Anthony: It went to number one on the US billboard Hot 100, where it stayed for five non-consecutive weeks, starting on May 22nd, 76, and it was the biggest song of that year in the us. The iconic band on the Run Eldon cover were trained prisoners breaking out of jail featured famous figures of the day, including Hollywood, tough Guy, actor James Cober, BBC broadcaster, Michael Parkinson, and British Boxer, John Conte.

Number one hits in five different configurations

[00:46:10] Dave Anthony: Here's a strange fact about Paul McCartney. He's the only artist to have a number one hit while in several different configurations as an app, as a solo artist. He hit number one with his song coming up. He had a number one hit as a duo with Stevie Wonder on Ebony and Ivory as a trio when Wings had a number one hit with Band on the run as a quartet with the Beatles, with several number ones, and even made the top spot as a quintet when The Beatles and Billy Preston collaborated on the number one hit.

A guest appearance on The Simpsons

[00:46:46] Dave Anthony: Get back, Paul McCartney. Liz White Linda McCartney appeared on The Simpsons in the episode titled Lisa the Vegetarian. Which originally aired in Season seven, episode five. In October, 1995, Paul agreed to guest star only on the condition that Lisa Simpson would remain a vegetarian for the rest of the series.

[00:47:07] Dave Anthony: Paul, his wife, Linda McCartney, played themselves helping Lisa embrace her new lifestyle. Paul even jokingly mentions in the episode that if you play his. Song, maybe I'm amazed backwards, you'll hear a recipe for lentil soup. How's this for an interesting rock history story, a legendary punk group named themselves after Paul McCartney.

How the Ramones got their name

[00:47:30] Dave Anthony: Here's the story. It starts with the fact that before the Beatles became famous, Paul briefly went by the stage name Paul Ramon. He used to check into hotels under that Paul Ramon pseudonym, a young musician from New York City punk band bassist. Douglas Colvin loved the Beatles music and suggested the name for the band After Learning of McCartney's pseudonym.

[00:47:54] Dave Anthony: The other band members loved the idea of the rest is history. The Ramones often considered the godfathers of the punk genre, even changed their sude to match the PNE moniker. Douglas Colvin, the man who came up with the Ramon's name became Bassist Dei Ramon. Jeffrey Hyman became vocalist. Joey Ramon. John Cummings became guitarist.

[00:48:12] Dave Anthony: Johnny Ramon and Thomas er Lee became drummer. Tommy Ramon, Paul McCarthy may have organized the most famous group of musicians ever to play on one song. The wing song er theme was recorded on October 3rd, 1978 at Abbey Road Studios by an all star collection of musicians dubbed ER and featured Paul McCartney on vocals, bass and piano.

An all-star Rockestra session

[00:48:36] Dave Anthony: Pete Townsend of the Who on electric guitar. David Gilmore of Pink Floyd Electric Guitar, Ronnie Lane of the Small Faces on Bass. John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin on bass and piano. John Bono drummer of Led Zeppelin. Special thanks to our guest today, Alan Cozen, co-author. Of the McCartney legacy. Thanks to you for making Garage to stadiums, one of the top 5% of podcasts in the world.

Sign-off and credits

[00:49:05] Dave Anthony: We'd love for you to follow our shows on your favorite podcast platforms so you can be alerted when our next episode drops. Follow us for some great music history content posted on our social channels, Instagram X, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube. Our YouTube channel has additional bonus coverage from our interview.

[00:49:24] Dave Anthony: Visit us at that website for more bonus content on all the bands featured, and links to great downloadable playlists on Apple and Spotify. Thanks to our producer, Cameron Dolliver, our program director Scott Campbell, creative director Chad Rabid, and video director Nigel Campbell. You've been listening to Garage to Stadiums.

[00:49:46] Dave Anthony: I'm Dave Anthony. See you next time for another Garage to Stadium Story.