Episode Transcript: The Story of Santana: How Latin rhythms created a new rock sound

hi there. I'm Dave Anthony, and this is the Garage to Stadiums Music History Podcast. On each episode, we tell you the story of how one of our music legends rose from obscurity to fame and play some of the songs that marked that journey

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Welcome to Garage to Stadiums Music History Podcast. This episode is the story of Santana. Born and raised in Mexico, Carlos Santana carried his musical roots with him to the United States and transformed the sound of rock music in the process. In the late '60s and early '70s, Santana broke through with a thrilling new fusion.

Carlos' soaring blues-based guitar set against Latin American and African rhythms, driven by congas, timbales, and other percussion rarely heard in rock at the time. The result was unmistakable: a sound that could be powerful, hypnotic, and deeply melodic, often within the same song. In this episode, you'll experience the significant ups and downs Carlos experienced along the way, and a remarkable occurrence that introduced his music to an entirely new generation.

Today, Carlos Santana is recognized as one of the most influential guitarists of all time. He's won 10 Grammy Awards, and in 2023, Rolling Stone ranked Carlos as one of the top guitarists of all time. Joining us to tell his story is Ashley Kahn, a Grammy-winning American music historian, author, professor, and producer who co-wrote Carlos Santana's autobiography, The Universal Tone: Bringing My Story to Light, which won the prestigious American Book Award.

Ashley teaches at New York University's Clive Davis Institute for Recorded Music and is a producer of the 2023 documentary on Carlos Santana that is available on many streaming platforms. Ashley has just released Days of Miracle and Wonder: Paul Simon and the Trials and Triumphs of Simon's seminal album, Graceland.

Welcome to Garage to Stadiums, Ashley.

Nice to be here, Dave. Thanks for having me on.

In terms of Santana, give us a sense of, , how you met the man and, , how this project came about.

Well, the short answer is that he's very aware of the jazz writing that I've done on John Coltrane especially, but Miles Davis, and I think he noticed a certain type of reverence and respect that, , I instill in all my music writing.

So he wanted to meet me. We met. We always got along. I'm also a blues guitar nut, and I'd- everyone he referenced I knew. I mean, down to some of the West Side soul guys from the late '60s and early '70s who were recording for Del-Mark Records, and es- esoterica like that. Uh- ... the fact that I was on top of that and-

when he was looking for someone to write his book with him, , apparently I was the only one of the bunch who showed up old school with a pen , and a pad of paper ready to go to work.

Wow.

And from the start, I just started writing notes of what he was saying, so I dealt with this kind of, like, interview as if it was the first interview for the book.

Carlos Santana’s Childhood in Mexico

Carlos Santana was born in 1947 with the name Carlos Humberto Santana Barragan in the town of Autlán de Navarro in the Mexican state of Jalisco in west central Mexico, more than 1,000 south of Tijuana and the US border. Carlos was the third child of seven Santana children, and the oldest brother in the family.

In terms of origin stories, Carlos Santana's childhood and adolescence is, , I don't know, is that the benchmark of chaos? Like, it's just an unbelievable story.

Yeah, there, there is a, a sense of chaos there with a musician dad and, , not totally stable, , living arrangements for a, a rather large family, seven kids, Carlos being right in the middle of that.

He was born in Jalisco, in a small town. Mm. Guadalajara is the big city there. It's closer to the Pacific. It's known for being the home of mariachi, 'cause that's the music that came out of the rancheros, the, , the ranches down there, horse farms, et cetera. And there are those- Mm-hmm ... who fall in love with that culture, and those who, like, never wanna see a horse or smell leather again.

And, and Carlos, I believe, was in the latter category. You know? You, you either take to it or not, and his father was, a musician who was also part of the municipal support system that used live music for all these events and rituals, et cetera. -

Carlos Was the son of Jose Santana, a musician and notorious ladies' man who disappeared for months at a time with his own band. In 1955, after nearly a year without him, Carlos's mother packed up all seven of the Santana children and arrived in Tijuana unannounced, only to find Jose living with another woman. To eight-year-old Carlos, this chaotic border town filled with visiting Americans felt like another world. The family reunited and began life together again in Tijuana. From 1955 to 1962, Carlos Santana grew up in Tijuana where music became a refuge from horrific abuse. He later said that between ages 10 and 12, an American tourist abused him almost every day, gaining his trust with toys and gifts. By 10, Carlos was also playing violin in his father's band.

So it was violin, , the mariachi violin that he first learned. And by the time the family ups and moves to Tijuana, with, , as many Mexicans, it's the first step going el norte, , heading north, , to lands of greater opportunity ... it's in Tijuana where Carlos becomes Carlos, where he puts down , the violin. He's got a touch.

He's the one, kid in the family who's really musically inclined, and that is closest to his father as a result. And yet his father is somewhat of a taskmaster when it comes to,, you gotta respect that melody. You gotta learn that melody. Don't embellish on it,? , respect it, , and, and express it.

And his father- ... apparently was, like, an incredibly well-known and well-respected musician for knowing a lot of Mexican, not just mariachi, so because that was what was popular with the tourists, but he's sort of like the Cole Porter of 1920s, 1930s Mexican music, and the love songs of that era, which played into Mexican films and Mexican- , media in general, was something that his, was his specialty. So this was the, , the background that Carlos came up against.

Carlos Santana’s Early Musical Influences

In 1961, Carlos switched to guitar, immersed himself in the blues, and played strip clubs. The family moved to San Francisco in 1962, but says Carlos, "I went from being a full-time musician in Tijuana to a full-time student at a junior high school in San Francisco, and they held me back because of my poor English, so I was in classes with 13 and 14-year-olds. I was 15, but I was used to interacting with guys in their 20s and 30s." Carlos, fled back to Tijuana and played in bars. In 1963, his mother and brother, Tony, brought him back to San Francisco. And by 1964, Carlos was forming his first San Francisco high school band.

And when you think of Carlos' very, very lyrical style on guitar and his touch- Yeah ... , you get a feel, and you mix that with his falling in love with electric blues, , from the States in Tijuana, it, it sort of all begins to make sense.

- Which ones had the most impact on him, ?

At, at the start, it's like anyone who falls in love with the blues. There's this certain raw emotionality, and especially in the expression of the electric guitar, and what- ... what has already been made possible by the early '60s, 'cause that's when Carlos is really falling in love with this music.

Who's he listening to? Definitely B.B. King, definitely John Lee Hooker, and he's already gone through his rock and roll stage, so he's done the Chuck Berry stuff But they're about ... And then all these new sounds coming from Chicago like Otis Rush, , like Hubert Sumlin- , playing with, with Howlin' Wolf, , sounds he's picking up on, to the point that he really becomes a kind of scientist of the sound, the tonal quality that different musicians, especially guitarists, are able to get.

And so it becomes-.. like, oh, how do I recreate the Otis Rush sound, that stinging, tenor-heavy approach to the guitar, and which amp is he using, and is there anything in between, kind of figure it out himself. For him, I think when they moved to California, when they, the Bay Area-, he really starts to, search out, , school friends who have great record collections. He starts- ... to discover this kind of second- and third-generation electric blues, people like Paul Butterfield Blues Band out of Chicago, , John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers from the UK, so he gets to know Eric Clapton.

He first hears Peter Green. He s- flips over Peter Green, , who would later be with Fleetwood Mac, but Peter Green was Eric Clapton's replacement in John Mayall & Bluesbreakers on this one track. on the second John Mayall & Bluesbreakers album. I think it's called So Many Roads, and there's a tune called "The Supernatural," not "Supernatural"-

but "The Supernatural." A- That's interesting ... and what it was was an experiment in going directly from the guitar pickups into the board, into the mixing board. So it, it was like- , a first, attempt at doing direct input, DI- Hmm ... ?

so do you get a purer sound with that? Y- you

got a very- Is that sort of the idea?

distinctive sound, and if you listen to it, you can hear the seed of what Carlos's sound is gonna be like.

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Forming Santana in San Francisco

(11:00)

So, the Bay Area obviously, There's Sly Stone later on with the, , mixed-race bands. That was one of the first, , Grateful Dead. What's going on in the San Fran scene that influences him?

Well, at the beginning to the middle of the '60s, it's like any major city in America, uh, that it has its rock and roll bands. It has its frat parties, , 'cause there's- . universities there. But by '65, '66, there's this new thing coming in, uh, which is that it's not clubs, and because he's had club experience playing even behind strippers down in Tijuana as a teenager.

Right. I mean, he's had a world of experience by the time he hits his 20s. Yeah. In San Francisco, of course, the, call it, the beginning of flower power, the hippie trend- Psychedelics ... the psychedelics, the, the LSD parties, et cetera, is starting to come in. At the same time, you've got this very, very forward-looking presenter and p- promoter of concerts, , named Bill Graham, who is-

taking over these old dance halls that are kind of lying fallow and not being used, and one of them is called the Fillmore Auditorium. And so- Sure ... in '66, that's really when the seed is planted for the whole kinda San Francisco, ... underground rock, explosion that would happen with, Jefferson Airplane and with the Grateful Dead and, uh, et cetera, et cetera.

How Bill Graham Discovered Carlos Santana

(13:00) Santana fortunately came to the attention of the famous 1960s and '70s rock promoter Bill Graham at the Fillmore Auditorium. But who was Bill Graham? To answer that question, we have to go back to Berlin, Germany of the 1930s. A boy named Wolfgang Griasa is born into a Jewish family as the Nazis rise to power.

His father dies just two days after his birth, and at 10, Wolfgang is sent out of Europe to escape the Holocaust. His sister dies along the way, and his mother will never make it out. He eventually ends up in the Bronx in New York City, weighing only 55 pounds and living with a foster family. Every day at school, he's teased about being a Nazi because of his German-sounding accent.

He quickly learns to speak in a perfect New York City accent. And in 1949, when Wolfgang became a US citizen, he changed his name to Bill Graham by looking in the phone book and finding a last name, the closest he could find to his original last name And years later, that frightened refugee will become one of the most powerful concert promoters in American rock history, promoting bands like The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, and Pink Floyd.

It's at a Sunday afternoon jam at the Fillmore that, Carlos stops by with a high school buddy, and the Butterfield Blues Band is in town. And they were one of the- .. groups that had discovered this incredible scene, and they would come in for weeks at a time, and they would play a couple of gigs, and then just hang out.

So, Mike Bloomfield, the guitarist with Paul Butterfield, is kind of heading the jam, and Jerry Garcia's up there, and it's kind of like milling about. Carlos not wanting to say the wrong thing and not wanting to impose himself on the situation, but Mike invites him up and says, "Hey, there's, there's a guitar.

Can you, can you play something?" And they're playing a blues shuffle of some sort, and - . ... Uh, it just sort of happened. Um, I- you know, it's kind of an open mic situation. Yeah. So, and then Bill Graham hears it and says, "Hey, buddy, you can play." In fact, he can see- ... that he's already at a certain level.

If you can put a band together, let's start booking you. 'Cause he was looking for new bands- ... and he needed them to be- kind of local, 'cause Bill Graham, who's not yet , at the point where he was subsidizing tours, et cetera, or artists who were ... on tour, and he's just about to get there.

Uh, 'cause, uh, he was working as a dishwasher, was he not?

In fact, yes, the, the only gig that he seems to have had between high school years and then diving into being part of Santana Blues Band, that was the first name of the group ... a dishwasher at Tick Tock Diner In China Basin.

Wow. See, did Graham have an affinity for Latin mu-

Oh my God Yeah Please. He grew up in New York. He was at the Palladium, you know- ... digging Tito Rodriguez and Tito Puente and learning. And that was the thing. . If you could get out on the dance floor and, and show your moves, Latin thing, you would, y- one, you'd have a great time. And two, you would get that music under your skin, you know? You have to realize that San Francisco was more than what we think of as just being this rock explosion, that there was-... this deep-seeded jazz, you know, kind of- Culture ... , exactly, , scene that was. Part of it was Latin, too, that there was this whole explosion of Latin music, especially stuff that was re- being recorded there in the Bay Area.

That's amazing. Bill Graham, we think of him as the big promoter, but man, he was seeding these cross elements into what really became a scene

It's Bill Graham, for example, who brings Bola Sete, , the Brazilian guitarist, and for many people, that's the first time they're hearing bossa nova, and has- them as Bola Sete opening for rock bands, or rock bands opening for Bola, ?

And one of the most important lessons he had was, , Bill Graham gives a very, very positive, , uplifting introduction on the stage to Santana one night at the Fillmore. And Carlos makes a point to come up and thank him for that very heartfelt introduction, and he goes, "You're very welcome, Carlos. That'll be $5." And Carlos later said, you know, "I was taken aback by that. I, I didn't quite..." You know, you see her 22, 21, 22. And he goes, "Uh, okay. Here you go, Bill." You know, gives him $5, and then later he's realizing, oh.

He's, anything you do, there's a value to it. And if y- it's up to you to put a price on it, to monetize it, to make it work for you. Mm. That there are some things, there's many things that y- of course Bill did for no cost whatsoever.

Right.

In fact, Bill would do stuff like, he said one of Bill's things was he always had a clipboard with him, and he would take notes-

of what's working, what's not, in every show. And the performance, too. So he had the balls the first time Jimi Hendrix played, at a Bill Graham show to go up to him w- with his clipboard- Yeah ... and say, "This could be better. This could be better. Why don't you start with this tune?" Wow. "Why don't you..."

But the fact that he- .. even did that with Jimi Hendrix. And he would do that with Santana. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And Carlos, there's a heartfelt memory that he carries , where Bill rips off a page from the, of... He, he gets Carlos' attention, rips off a page from the- Mm

thing, and there's nothing written on it at all. And so he's saying to him, uh,

yeah. He

made it. "Great show."

Next, the still unknown Carlos gets a destiny-changing chance to play with his band Santana before hundreds of thousands. But as he takes the stage, he can barely control his guitar

can he somehow pull it off?

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Key Gigs and Early Milestones

In October 1968, with Bill Graham's help, Santana signed with Columbia Records, and shortened its name from the Santana Blues Band. Bill Graham's lawyer even protected the band's royalty rate on future formats, a clause that would pay off handsomely in the future.

In July 1969, Graham sent Santana east to play larger venues alongside Led Zeppelin, B.B. King, and Sam & Dave. Then came Woodstock, and its organizer Michael Lang needed Bill Graham's help to secure West Coast bands like Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane. Well, Bill Graham agreed, but said, on one condition that a new band that he discovered, Santana, would also be allowed to play.

How Woodstock Changed Santana’s Career

So on August 16th, Carlos and his band made their way to Woodstock, New York, for a destiny-changing performance. Unfortunately, that morning, Carlos took mescaline, believing the band wouldn't perform until much later. Suddenly, Santana was ordered on stage early. His guitar seemed to twist like a snake in his hands, and he didn't even know who he was when he took the stage.

But this unknown performer walked out on stage with his unknown band in front of five hundred thousand fans, and somehow, Carlos Santana and his band delivered the performance that made Santana famous. To this day, Carlos says he remembers little of that legendary performance

Fame and the Rise of Latin Rock

Six days after Woodstock, on August 22nd, 1969, Santana released its self-titled debut album, featuring Jingo, Soul Sacrifice, and Evil Ways. But the concert itself isn't what truly launched Santana. A documentary about Woodstock arrived in March 1970, and movie audiences were stunned by Santana's performance of Soul Sacrifice.

Suddenly, millions could see the band's furious percussion driving the performance. The film sent listeners back to Santana's debut album, and that first album climbed to number four, while Evil Ways, the single, reached number nine. More importantly, the documentary created a huge audience waiting for what came next.

Abraxas and Santana III

And months later, in September 1970, Santana released Abraxas, featuring the hits Black Magic Woman and Oye Como Va. The album raced to number one. So the concert introduced Santana, but the movie made them stars. And the album Abraxas in 1970 proved they were built to last.

Black Magic Woman, of course, being the Peter Green tune that Carlos put on that album, and actually did he not give royalties to the, what he felt was the original inspiration?

Uh, yeah. The idea that Otis Rush was kind of, how should I say, uh-

Forgotten ...

uh, yeah, yeah. . But source point for a lot of electric guitarists of a certain ilk, um, that he felt very strongly about. And him and Otis would get to know each other, and they would stay in touch and be friends for life.

And he would financially support him, in his later years.

Okay. Yeah, that says something about the man.

Oh, yeah.

Santana's extraordinary run continued in September 1971 with the album Santana III, the band's third album in just over two years. The record pushed their Latin rock sound in a more African direction, driven by dense percussion, layered rhythms, and a growing cast of musicians.

Guests included the Tower of Power horn section, while singer Rico Reyes took the lead on the Spanish language track Guajira. The album produced No One to Depend On and Everybody's Everything While the uplifting Everything's Coming Our Way featured Carlos Santana himself on lead vocals, a rare occurrence, Santana III followed Abraxas all the way to number one on Billboard-

Those first three albums ca- was like a one, two, three punch that just, blasted the spirit of the '60s into the 1970s decade.

You could say that. I remember, I was 10, 11, 12 at that time, so just starting to hang out with friends, just starting to really get a feel for rock culture. Right. And that was everyone had Abraxas, you know?

Next, Santana III would be the final album made by Santana's complete Woodstock lineup before Carlos leads the band into a dramatically different musical territory.

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Spirituality and Santana’s Move into Jazz

The spiritual side of Carlos starts to emerge, and since the band has a lot of, you know, typical early '70s, there's drugs, there's all sorts of addiction issues. Carlos gets a little bit fed up with this.

Yeah.

How did the spiritual side come ag- around, and how did that play a role in kind of the changes?

Well, you know, it was in the air. It was already in the air, there was a period from late '60s into the early '70s, you could say it might have started with, a meditation that The Beatles were doing with the Maharishi, with a trip- Yeah ... to India.

But suddenly it was, in the mainstream, this idea of, of spiritual enlightenment, of spiritual, of, of paying attention to one's spiritual life, other than just hitting the church on Sunday morning and then see you next week. The idea that there is this spiritual energy that we all have that needs to be regarded, respected, considered, and helps us to find who we are, Which is- Sure ... at, at, on one side nowadays sounds a little quaint, a little naive maybe. But on the other side is no, you know? Yeah. It's always there. It was there, I mean- This is a part of our reality.

So, so Carlos makes a stand against what he thinks is the excesses of the band. He actually gets fired from the band-

And then he fires

back

which is an interesting ... And then he fires back .

Uh, what band doesn't have inner conflict? Inner conflicts were definitely amplified by, , some drug excesses. , He discovers his particular guru. It's not gonna be the Maharishi, it's not gonna be others, but it is gonna be Sri Chinmoy.

Uh, Sri- Mm-hmm Is, uh, which is by the way, a title of respect, you know, in, um, Hindu culture. Um, what he liked about Sri is that Sri is doing his thing not in like some sort of northern California, , retreat, up in the hills and in the woods, but is doing it in Queens, New York.

Right in the middle of the city. And he's establishing- Yeah ... stuff like vegetarian restaurants, et cetera. John McLaughlin- Right ... is an adherent. Uh, so is Narada Michael Walden, um, and Roberta Flack. Um, so there's all these other contemporary kind of stars who, , Carlos respects, especially, you know- , John McLaughlin, who are, kind of falling under Sri's influence, and so does Carlos.

And he and his wife, uh, he's just married Deborah, um, they don't have to follow everything that, ... Sri Chinmoy is, is putting in place, but they, he does cut his hair, and he does wear white for a while,

And you can see photos of him in that period. Yeah.

How John Coltrane and Miles Davis Influenced Carlos Santana

You know, the John Coltrane, Miles Davis, that those influences, you mentioned John McLaughlin. What did jazz icons bring to Carlos? What did he see there that he, it g- it influenced him and his music?

Well, you, you can blame Michael Shrieve, , the, the young, uh, drummer- The drummer ... who joined Santana just as they are getting ready to say no to these LA sessions- and embark on their very first album.

They meet at Wally Heider's studio. Actually, , Michael Shrieve is playing with another group, and he notices the, the kind of accents and the, the kind of offbeats, et cetera, that he's doing, it has a, has a more jazzy flavor. So, you know, the curiosity about the music begins again. And like it did with the blues, Michael says, "Well, you gotta listen to this."

After Santana III in 1971, Carlos turns his head towards jazz, and jazz great John Coltrane shows Carlos how music could be both adventurous and deeply spiritual, a way of reaching toward healing, truth, and a higher consciousness. This strikes a chord with Carlos, but Coltrane also taught him an important commercial lesson.

Coltrane pushed listeners through complex boundary-breaking improvisation, then reconnected them with an accessible melody, like in Coltrane's classic My Favorite Things Carlos embraced that same balance. Explore fearlessly, but give the audience something memorable to hold onto. It became a guiding principle as Santana moved the band into its jazz-influenced era in the 1970s and throughout Carlos's career.

Another jazz great, Miles Davis, expanded Carlos Santana's musical vocabulary. From Miles, Carlos absorbed modal improvisation, escaping predictable chord changes, exploring a musical scale more freely, and using space, phrasing, and tension to take listeners somewhere unexpected. A good example is Miles Davis' So What from his 1959 album Kind of Blue.

Watching Miles perform for young rock audiences at the Fillmore convinced Carlos that music could, as he put it, "put stretch marks on people's brains." And Miles, while delivering all these lessons, also delivered a blunt challenge to Carlos, "I can go where you guys are in that rock sound, but you can't come to where I am."

Why CaravanseraiWas a Commercial Risk

Carlos, as if to prove his own innovative brilliance, took that challenge seriously and moved Santana away from its proven hit-making formula , towards its jazz fusion sound of the 1970s. As part of the jazz influence, in October 1972, Santana risked everything with Caravanserai, the album released in October of that year.

Instead of delivering another collection of radio hits, with that album, Carlos created an immersive jazz fusion journey with one track flowing into the next like a continuous body of work. The instrumental Song of the Wind captured this new direction, open, searching, and built through extended improvisation

But others felt differently about the album. Columbia Records president Clive Davis was stunned. "Where was the single?" said Davis. He reportedly told Carlos there wasn't one, quote, "within 1,000 miles of the album." Even Carlos's mentor, Bill Graham, called it career suicide. But Caravanserai still reached number eight on Billboard and would become one of Santana's most critically acclaimed records.

The idea that by the fourth album that they do, Caravanserai, they're extending- ... the forms, the structures, and they're bringing in this idea of extended solos, which are, is kind of already embedded in the San Francisco culture. Think about the Grateful Dead. - Jerry Garcia ... Jerry Garcia.

Think about, , The Allman Brothers, , with tunes like Dreams, where, ... it's just this modal kind of form. I mean, that's purely inspired by Kind of Blue and, and, Miles Davis. So, you know, um, it's already kinda there, but Santana's gonna put their own kind of flavor on this idea, and the next three albums- Yeah if you ask me, are- Yeah ... just as strong musically as the first three. They weren't as strong commercially, though.

And they went deep into that jazz, genre, and the question I w- was wondering, given your background in the jazz world, is how did the jazz world view Carlos? Was he seen as a legitimate figure, or did some view him as kind of an interloper?

Um, you know, that's, Dave, you could say that about shit today. I mean, excuse my French, but that never goes away. Jazz and some other music, too,, has this kind of proprietary feel about what is and isn't, their particular style, and they are kinda protective of that, you know?

Latin music, oh, heck yeah, when the whole San Francisco Latin thing was happening, a lot of the New York, Latin, well, that's, they, they don't have the clave correct you know? I mean- ... so it, that's always gonna be there. I think the question is, is much more, , was the Santana listenership being expanded and respected by a, a larger community, um, of, uh, who were taking the music-

very seriously, et cetera, and I think so. I think the, the idea that Santana was this Latin rock band, Latin-flavored rock band,, by the fourth, fifth album, a lot of people are saying, "Oh, that's, no, they have many sides to them, and they are good on all levels."

And would, would Carlos have left a mark on jazz?

Did he change jazz? Let's ask it this way.

Well, I mean, y- you could say so. , Listen, Miles and Carlos become very close.

That's true

Santana brings in Neil Shone, and suddenly you have two guitarists. Right And Miles is telling him, "Why are you doing that? Why, why do you need to bring in a second guitarist? You're the star up there." . And the next thing you know, Miles is using two guitarists, and by the mid- middle-'70s- ... he's using three guitarists. If everyone's following Miles as they were in the '60s and into the '70s, the idea of a much more rock-sounding, blues-influenced, , guitar in the world of jazz is becoming a normal thing. Yeah, I mean, Carlos is definitely kind of pointing the way forward, and even Miles is listening to what's going on with Santana.

Next, the band, which was the classic Santana band, suddenly has turnover.

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Lineup Changes and Commercial Decline

The 1970s jazz experiments of Santana earn critical respect, but during that era, they also cost Carlos many of the rock and Latin fans who had made the original band famous.

Keyboardist Gregg Rolie and guitar wizard Neil Shone would soon depart, and eventually help form the band Journey. In the 1980s, Carlos tried to reconnect with mainstream audiences through more accessible material, often recording songs written by others. It briefly worked. In April 1981, the album Zebop reached number nine, while a cover of the song Winning climbed to number 17.

But the momentum faded, and Santana gradually became viewed as a classic touring act, playing the old favorites for audiences who remembered Woodstock and that famous album Abraxas. It appeared the biggest chapter of Carlos Santana's career was already behind him.

Next, a surprising individual will make a return into Carlos's orbit and change his destiny forever.

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The SupernaturalComeback

In June 1999, Clive Davis, that record executive from Columbia Records, returns and connects with Carlos. When Davis reentered the picture to advise Carlos, he suggested that Carlos pair himself with contemporary stars to create a new album. The album would be called Supernatural, and it would contain pop and radio-friendly material featuring an all-star cast such as Rob Thomas of the band Matchbox 20, CeeLo Green, Lauryn Hill, Eric Clapton, and Dave Matthews.

And the songs, singles Smooth and Maria Maria, both reached number one. The album topped the charts in 11 countries, and ultimately, Santana won as many Grammys for that album as Michael Jackson did at the 1984 Grammys for his album Thriller. Supernatural would go on to sell more than 30 million copies worldwide while a new generation went searching for Santana's original records.

At the height of the revival, that famous Abraxas album was certified for five million sales in America alone. And remember that obscure royalty clause that mentor and advisor Bill Graham had urged Carlos to include back in that 1968 contract? The one protecting Santana's royalty rate whenever those early albums were reissued in a new format?

Well, more than 30 years later, Bill Graham's clause had become a gold mine as millions of listeners were buying his old music on CD and future formats.

Yeah.

The

album

Supernatural just explodes, and he has this huge- Sure ... second chapter to his career. Kind of like what- Yeah ... happened with Paul Simon and Graceland, you know?

Sure. Santana was kind of written off as, okay, they're just plowing the hits again, and again, and again. Yeah. You know? The

jukebox on

tour kind of thing. Right. Exactly. And, um, you know, they've said they've provided all they're gonna provide. One thing that, that is so impressive is that Santana never takes a vacation.

From the '70s into that point in 2000, Carlos y- made a point of this. He said, "So suddenly I have this hit, this album, when I've reunited with Clive Davis, and s- it at a certain level. And then also- Yeah ... take these tunes and recreate them live. So-

Whose concept was it? Was Clive Davis instrumental in the creating it?

The concept of let's bring the guests in.

Yeah. That, that's, that's a- Rob Thomas, uh- And, and it, it becomes known as the Supernatural approach. You know, let's do a Supernatural Rod Stewart. Let's do a Supernatural, you know, Sting or-

My God, that album was huge.

Oh, God. I mean, Carlos walked away, you know, like doing this at the Grammys.

You know? The

Grammys. Just a bucket load of awards on that. Yeah. And, and see-

And this was still at the point when physical f- formats, sales success, commercial success, musical success. Yeah. So he, he got in just before all of that went away with Napster and, you know- Oh, right ... files, et cetera, being shared.

Carlos Santana’s Legacy and Influence

We're nearing the end here. From working strip bars, like you said, on the streets of Tijuana as a 13-year-old, to an eventual turn towards, , the Eastern philosophies. He's had a very colorful life. How would you knowing the man, describe

Uh, very strong. Having a conversation with Carlos, I, I've gotten to the point where, , it's very relaxed.

I'm not invested in it, in, I'm not on pins and needles as I once was. But I can remember when I was first, starting to work with him, he was on from the moment you met him. It wasn't like getting his day together, and he wanted 100% of you, and nothing less. Now, that's kind of disarming in that, it makes sure that you get your teeth brushed and your hair combed and you put on your best shirt.

That's how you prepare,

Right. You're starting, so that focus is not just on the music. It's, like, in the zone of when he's a one-on-one with anyone.

Yeah, yeah. There's this intensity, to his concentration, to what he's asking. It's a little bit drill instructor, but it's also a little bit spiritual guru.

Yeah. That sense that this guy can see right through me, and he knows who I am, and so I better be comfortable with who I am, you know? But-

And , is there a lighter side to the

man? -

Absolutely. No, at the same time, he's someone who has, these fun stories and fun memories that he wants to share.

And if you have something that you wanna share with him and you know it's gonna be of interest, and you, you know, one gets to know that he's very socially conscious, very politically inclined, very aware ... I mean, he goes, "Ashley, you know what I wanna do? I wanna get this world leader and that world leader together," et cetera, because he knows that he has that kind of power. And he knows he can pick up the phone, and if somebody, anywhere around the world hears that it's Carlos Santana talking, okay, the Dalai Lama will be with you in fi- in, you know, he's busy right now, but he'll call you back in five minutes, Mr. Santana.? Wow. He can do that. Wow. So he's always asking, what can I do with my name, my fame, my music, my connections- Hmm

et cetera, to help, you know? He has the Milagro Foundation, miracle in Spanish, that, that is helping with education, with medical, services, et cetera, down in Mexico primarily, but other places too.

Hmm. Very interesting. And what is his place in music, Carlos? What will they say about his impact?

How Ashley Kahn Describes Santana’s Legacy

What will they say? The idea that , he's a true synthesizer, and I mean that not as the electronic keyboard instrument, but as someone who has synthesized styles in such an open way, but also with a kinda cosmic consciousness. Um, he sees himself as a planetary citizen. He sees his music as a weapon against the idea of borders and flags and nationalism, and anything that conceptually separates people, you know?

So that's, that's how I... I mean, because it goes beyond just the blues-based guitar stuff, and this incredibly lyrical feel- Hmm ... that he develops, and it goes beyond, like I said, the synthesizing of different styles that becomes the Santana sound.

It's

interesting because, you've hit on something there where we're so rigid in our formats, and here's this guy just cutting across anything back and forth, to your synthesize point. I mean, this guy's the epitome of that. Yeah. It's interesting.

Well, you know, th- and there are many others. You can look at Miles Davis and the way that he was constantly reinventing, how he..... approached the music, just to keep himself interested in it. Yeah. And- Yeah ... so there's a lot of that stripe that, that is shared between a lot of

musical legends, that their, they, their ears and their minds remain very curious and open.

Who Did Santana Influence?

What would you say in terms of who he's influenced musically?

Oh, man. I wanna say that anytime you see congas in a rock setting, that's the Santana influence there- Yeah ... of some sort, you know? Right. The idea that, you should be looking to all that diasporic, uh- Yeah

tradition. African. Yeah, the African tradition, which primarily comes up through Cuba, but also other islands, and then, to Mexico, and into the States, and up through Miami. Yeah. Santana is one of the most beautiful examples of what happened with that kind of, cultural movement, and, and-

that we have Africa to thank.

Ashley Kahn’s Recommended Santana Songs

Is it possible, and I know what your answer's gonna be, three picks of songs that's the audience hearing, you'll get a retrospective of the man?

That's impossible.

Um, Louverture, that suite that's on the first album, you know? Uh, named after the Haitian, you know, general of, of fame. I would say definitely Welcome, which is the title track to that sixth album, one of the jazz, heavily jazz- Yeah ... influenced albums. Um, and then just the way that Black Magic Woman, segues , that's one of the defining moments in rock, hands down, you know?

As much as anything else, a Chuck Berry riff, a, a Beatles harmony, you know, that segue going, and, and how well it worked, uh, everyone knows it, and we- everyone knows what's coming. That's- And that's such a gift in and of itself, so I would say those three things

Today we've been talking to Ashley Kahn, Grammy-winning American music historian, author, professor, and producer who co-wrote Carlos Santana's autobiography, The Universal Tone: Bringing My Story to Light.

You've really illuminated us today on, I think that word synthesizer sticks in my mind, of how Carlos went from genre to genre to genre and left an impact that was influenced by these, these movements and incorporated into his catalog, and it's an incredible story of a man who grew up in the streets of Mexico and ultimately becomes this force politically, spiritually, and otherwise.

So you've really helped us today understand

him.

Happy to do it, Dave, with modern-day relevance, too. Open ears, open hearts, open borders.

Thank

you.

. Thank you.

Closing Notes on Santana

Some closing notes on Santana. The partnership that formed Carlos Santana's band with keyboardist Gregg Rolie and others began with a jam session in a garage. The music became so loud that neighbors called the police. Rather than meet the officers, the future rock stars escaped the garage and hid together in a nearby bean field.

The original percussionist in the Santana band was a man named Marcus Malone, but a manslaughter conviction sent him to San Quentin before the band's famous Woodstock performance decades later, Carlos learned that Malone was homeless in Oakland. Their emotional reunion was captured by a television reporter who had tracked Malone down

Before Journey became an arena rock powerhouse, two of its founders played together in Santana. Teenage guitar prodigy Neal Schon joined the band in 1971 alongside keyboardist Gregg Rolie. The pair eventually departed, formed Journey, and created another band destined to fill stadiums around the world.

By the 1990s, Santana was largely viewed as a heritage touring act. Then came the album Supernatural in 1999. It sold more than 30 million copies worldwide and produced two number one singles. At the 2000 Grammys, Santana won eight awards in one night, tying Michael Jackson's record for his album Thriller.

Carlos Santana has never described music like an ordinary guitar player. He speaks of notes as colors, spiritual forces, and sources of healing. He once explained that his purpose as a musician was to, quote, "reconnect molecules with the light," unquote. Whatever that means, you can certainly hear it in his guitar

During a 2010 concert, Santana jazz drummer Cindy Blackman delivered a blistering drum solo. Carlos Santana then walked on stage and proposed to her in front of the audience, and she said yes. They married later that year in Maui, one of music's most formidable husband-and-wife instrumental partnerships.

📍 Long before marrying Carlos Santana, Cindy Blackman Santana was an accomplished jazz drummer influenced by the legendary Tony Williams. Millions, however, first noticed her playing with Lenny Kravitz. That's Cindy behind the drum kit in the video for his 1993 hit Are You Gonna Go My Way. The song Maria Maria wasn't merely one of Santana's biggest hits.

In 2008, Carlos helped launch a chain of Mexican restaurants bearing the song's name. The restaurants combined Mexican cuisine with artwork and design inspired by Santana's music, turning a number one single into an entire dining experience.

Carlos Santana has extended his name beyond guitars and records, even launching his own line of women's shoes. Carlos didn't personally design the footwear. It was inspired by the passion and energy of his music, and a portion of the proceeds supported children through his Milagro foundation.

Santana's 1969 debut album features what appears to be a roaring lion. But look more closely and you'll see that the lion's face contains several hidden human faces and figures. The striking optical illusion became one of the psychedelic era's classic album covers, and many listeners owned it for years without noticing its secrets

we want to thank our listeners for making us now one of the top 3% of podcasts in the world, and we're listened to in more than 100 countries. So join the Garage to Stadiums nation. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube, and follow us on Instagram, YouTube Shorts, and X for bite-sized music history that'll surprise you every time you scroll.

Special thanks to our production crew, Scott Campbell, Chad Raymond, Emilia Mariang, and Nigel Campbell. I'm Dave Anthony. Thanks for listening. See you next time for another Garage to Stadium story

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